sub moa accuracy of plain factory rifles stock

[shortgrass]

Also I dont shoot f class events so that probably means I shouldnt talk rite? but if I did I would use my custom rig built by a competent more knowlodgable proven results guy rite.

No. You don't have to shoot F Class or compete in any other competition. But if you make over the top claims that sound like they're coming from a 17yr. old, expect to be called on them. There are some quite knowlegable folks who visit this forum. Why are we not seeing these rifles in the winner circle at F Class matches, Long Range Sporting Rifle Matches, or sanctioned BR matches? Why are serious LR hunters not happy with what the factories offer? No one would spend the money on a custom if factory was as 'accurate' as you claim. It ain't all about reloading. The 'mechanics' of the rifle have alot to do with accuracy, too. As do quality optics and their attachment to the rifle. And then there's the "nut behind the trigger".....

 

[midwestmoa]

I assure you im not a 17 yo do you feel the need to attack. How manny times must I say If I was going to shoot competively I wouldnt take one of my factory rifles my statement stands on the groups I have held with stock rifles and not alot of people take stock rifles to f class competition so I dont know what your proving.THat dosent prove that a factory rifle with load development can shoot .5 in that range and under so I dont know what else to say to all ye nay sayers lol .

 

[midwestmoa]

Just to add if I want to shoot more than 3to5 times I use a thick barrel for heat absorption / rigidity which my howa 1500 bull factory spec does the best rite up there very nicely made gun it also dosent use a washer type recoil lug which is nice also machined very nicely wish it were made in u.s.a though but it was one of those deals you get have to buy it being slightly used.

 

[GuNsLiNgEr78]

I think the Corvette guys don't want to hear it from the white trash Camaro guys that has just as fast of a car midwest. We call Corvettes penis extenders round here though LOL
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[lloydsmale]

I have a corvette and its far from a penis extender. the new Camaros are a wonderful car but are beat out in every performance category by a vette. 20mph higher top speed and 3/4s of second in the quarter mile aren't real small amounts either and im not even talking the newest generation of the corvette which will shave another 1/4- 1/2 a second off that time and another 10mph on the top end as will my last generation 2008 z06. Is it so much as to justify 20k or more increase in price NO. the Camaro is the hands down bang for the buck winner. But there isn't much made at any price that will outrun a new corvette. Again just like here its a matter of getting what you paid for. Small increases in performance are expensive. Im 57 years old and happily married. I don't care if anyone looks at my car male or female and thinks its nice or thinks I bought it to impress them. I bought it because its a MACHINE! All I can say Is drive one. Ive grew up in the muscle car days and have always been a car guy and this is a CAR! Its no penis extender but power shift it from 2nd to 3rd at 7000rpm and it might just give you wood. I drive mine because its FUN. If you actually drove one you'd understand. this is way off topic though and if I really told you what I thought of your opinion theyd probably kick me off here so ill end it here.

I think the Corvette guys don't want to hear it from the white trash Camaro guys that has just as fast of a car midwest. We call Corvettes penis extenders round here though LOL
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[lloydsmale]

it would be about like bringing that stock camero to a nascar race. Factory guns are no doubt good performers but good isn't good enough when your talking competition. Saying that my only custom gun is a 2506 hunting rifle. Im a hunter and don't need to win any competions with my guns and the HONEST 1moa that most factory hunting guns will give is plenty for me. Nice if they shoot better of course but I sure don't call a moa rifle an inaccurate hunting rifle and I sure don't buy a hunting rifle expecting 1/2moa out of it. Like shortgrass hinted toward. If you can do that with every out of the box factory gun a lot of guys here are wasting money!!!!

No. You don't have to shoot F Class or compete in any other competition. But if you make over the top claims that sound like they're coming from a 17yr. old, expect to be called on them. There are some quite knowlegable folks who visit this forum. Why are we not seeing these rifles in the winner circle at F Class matches, Long Range Sporting Rifle Matches, or sanctioned BR matches? Why are serious LR hunters not happy with what the factories offer? No one would spend the money on a custom if factory was as 'accurate' as you claim. It ain't all about reloading. The 'mechanics' of the rifle have alot to do with accuracy, too. As do quality optics and their attachment to the rifle. And then there's the "nut behind the trigger".....

 

[shortgrass]

This is just another thread started by a guy who has convinced himself, for one reason or another, that he's got it all figured out. The same guy who shows up at the range bragging about is factory rifle that shoots 1/4" or 1/2" groups "all day long" and then spends the next hour explaining why he can only get 1 1/2" groups today. We've all met him and heard all of his excuses.

 

[midwestmoa]

This was a threadstarted by a guy to get people to take a serious look at what they can get a factory rifle to do which I will repeat my statement over and over to youguys im sorry you dont wanna hear it but im relaying what ive done and theres others that have 2 and agree but you keep bringing up comparing a stock to a custom assuming what you define as a custom I can get factory rifles to do couple shots nice but if its thin barrel im done till we cool down but if I use thick barrel such as howa ive used it rite up there with anything ive done.
But ultimately a nice custom gun is nice in all aspects im focusing point on what a stock rifle can do if you put the time and headache on a cheap bargain gun in bolt and transfer that to paper.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Here is my take on it, and most will probably disagree, but I'm happy with my 1/4-to-1/2 minute factory reworked "customs". You can laugh and joke all you want, but there's a reason I keep using factory barrels, and I will discuss that in this post. Also, a 1/2 minute gun still means potential 5" group capabilities at 1000 yards. And that's more than enough to kill a deer, especially anything larger with a bigger vitals area.

All of my custom rifles are basically just completely worked and trued factory rifles with worked-over Sendero barrels. True the action and lug, true the barrel threads, true the shoulder, reset the headspace with a good quality reamer, hand-lap the bore, and recrown the muzzle. Bed the action and float the barrel, and you have pretty much the same thing as a custom rifle and barrel. You spend $250-300, over the cost of the rifle, and you are basically giving it every chance the factory rifle is capable of, and if that barrel still won't shoot, then something is probably wrong with your brass or loads.

Barrel steel is barrel steel... The main difference in a factory bore and a $350 blank, is the $350 blank was rifled, and then hand-lapped. If you hand-lap a well-rifled factory barrel with a good bore, you're going to get good accuracy. And if the rest of the rifle is trued up as well, then you're adding even more potential. If a barrel is made of the same material, and is bored and rifled to proper specs, hand-lapped, regardless of whether it is stamped with an aftermarket name or a factory name, then what is the difference?

Now, there are some exceptions. Some barrels are faulty from bad rifling buttons, some have crooked chambers, some have oversized chambers, etc... And those barrels, are not much that can be fixed, so yes, those can become tomato spikes.

Not every factory barrel is a winner, but you will find more good ones than bad ones, if you give them half a chance. Even if the rifling looks a bit roughly cut, a good hand-lapping (or fire-lapping with the Tubbs bullets) will help most of that out.

The reason I build these, is because I can do it cheaply (about my only budget option at the moment), and because no matter what someone else tries to tell me, I have 5 of them sitting in the safe that will remove all doubt once you shoot them with handloads.

 

[midwestmoa]

Weve all heared of the guys say that there guns under such n such moa but he dosent do it on paper and makes excuses.well couldnt we say that for a guy with a stock rifle or a custom more times then most people with alot of mulah like to take king status at the range with alot of money into a rig and make fun of others and cant shoot and make excuses that goes both ways also some guys say they can shoot 1k but dont know what minutes or mils are or how to use them or they have a stock gun with corelokts making claims from thier pride issues which they most likely inherited from there father figure of ignorance but cant do it on paper.

 

[gohring3006]

Here is my take on it, and most will probably disagree, but I'm happy with my 1/4-to-1/2 minute factory reworked "customs". You can laugh and joke all you want, but there's a reason I keep using factory barrels, and I will discuss that in this post. Also, a 1/2 minute gun still means potential 5" group capabilities at 1000 yards. And that's more than enough to kill a deer, especially anything larger with a bigger vitals area.

All of my custom rifles are basically just completely worked and trued factory rifles with worked-over Sendero barrels. True the action and lug, true the barrel threads, true the shoulder, reset the headspace with a good quality reamer, hand-lap the bore, and recrown the muzzle. Bed the action and float the barrel, and you have pretty much the same thing as a custom rifle and barrel. You spend $250-300, over the cost of the rifle, and you are basically giving it every chance the factory rifle is capable of, and if that barrel still won't shoot, then something is probably wrong with your brass or loads.

Barrel steel is barrel steel... The main difference in a factory bore and a $350 blank, is the $350 blank was rifled, and then hand-lapped. If you hand-lap a well-rifled factory barrel with a good bore, you're going to get good accuracy. And if the rest of the rifle is trued up as well, then you're adding even more potential. If a barrel is made of the same material, and is bored and rifled to proper specs, hand-lapped, regardless of whether it is stamped with an aftermarket name or a factory name, then what is the difference?

Now, there are some exceptions. Some barrels are faulty from bad rifling buttons, some have crooked chambers, some have oversized chambers, etc... And those barrels, are not much that can be fixed, so yes, those can become tomato spikes.

Not every factory barrel is a winner, but you will find more good ones than bad ones, if you give them half a chance. Even if the rifling looks a bit roughly cut, a good hand-lapping (or fire-lapping with the Tubbs bullets) will help most of that out.

The reason I build these, is because I can do it cheaply (about my only budget option at the moment), and because no matter what someone else tries to tell me, I have 5 of them sitting in the safe that will remove all doubt once you shoot them with handloads.

Well said Mud. I admit a custom will be easier to get to shoot, but that doesn't mean that a factory rifle won't do it. I go shoot half inch groups with my factory 5r barrel I must be smoking crack!! There's no way a factory rifle will shoot sub moa. Its gotta be the crack talkin.

 

[midwestmoa]

Mudd runner have you tried shooting those guns before truing them with reloads. The reason I ask is im wondering if that would increase my powder charge range for some guns giving a wider range of reloads possible for same gun as I havent done that with factory guns yet.

 

[ohiohunter]

Weve all heared of the guys say that there guns under such n such moa but he dosent do it on paper and makes excuses.well couldnt we say that for a guy with a stock rifle or a custom more times then most people with alot of mulah like to take king status at the range with alot of money into a rig and make fun of others and cant shoot and make excuses that goes both ways also some guys say they can shoot 1k but dont know what minutes or mils are or how to use them or they have a stock gun with corelokts making claims from thier pride issues which they most likely inherited from there father figure of ignorance but cant do it on paper.

So you have a range bully who buys expensive guns and laughs at people on the range? Sorry but aside from your terrible grammar you sound butt hurt that someone has a more expensive gun than you. I've never witnessed anything you are talking about. Hell, most people hardly conversate at the range other than "clear" and "hot".

More than anything it sounds like you have a pride issue. Furthermore all you have talked about are 0.5" groups that I am assuming are at 100yds, after that it is all talk with zero details. You've made a blanket statement and continue to do so. Now you're accusing people w/ custom guns of being arrogant towards those w/ factory rifles. You obviously have a complex of which you've publicly announced on this forum. I hope talking about this issue has given you some resolve.... good luck on your future psychiatric endeavors.

In all honesty this thread has proved nothing that everyone here didn't already know. Basically my original perception of this thread being pointless and a **** stirrer was accurate, more accurate than someones factory gun

 

[lloydsmale]

nobody said you were on crack because you had a factory gun shoot 1/2 moa. It was your statement that all of your factory guns do it that showed ya like the pipe to me.