338 snipe-tack black diamond

[new shooter]

Dave have you finished the 11 pound 338-snipe-tac yet? will it be a single shot? What would a super light repeater weight? this is probably a dum question but can a repeater be made as accurate for long range hunting? thanks for your response.

 

[Black Diamond 408]

New Shooter,

No i haven't finished the super light weight rifles yet. One action (stainless) is completed and the Ti action is in the works. Stocks are in and just waiting on the carbon barrels from ABS. The rifle with the stainless action will be a little heavier than that of the rifle with the Ti action. Both rifles are full length actions, they will eject a loaded round. Some weight can be reduced by using a shorter action, only draw back is you have to release the bolt to remove a loaded shell.

These two rifles are going to be single shots. I have built one single shot and three repeaters to date. Repeaters are a bit heavier due to the added parts needed. My actions are made with small loading ports and the magazine well is small as possible, i don't see any problem on long range hunting accuracy with a repeater over single shot. These actions are pretty stout at 1.600" dia. All of these have proved under 1 moa groups at 1000yds. A single shot action should be stronger due to no mag well cut, but i didn't see any difference in grouping. My repeaters have been getting groups 6-8" at 1000yds, under hunting conditions, Bi-pods, prone, ect. Summer testing in the Wyo mountains produced some good results, there was a gusty 20-30mph cross wind, groups were 7-12" all had horizontal spreads. All shots were on the horizontal line. I was surprised on how well the 300mk bucked the wind. My load for this test was right at 3350fps.

I am working on an internal magazine system that might cut some more weight from the rifle, two shot in the mag, one in the barrel for three total. To date the repeater rifles all weigh under the 16# goal. Ti actions and ABS barrels are the only way to drop the total weight. If the Mag system im working on pans out, you should be able to make a repeater rifle 12-13#

On another crazy note, i have a customer that wants to build a one of a kind rifle, he wants a caliber that is not avalible. He has the capability to turn his own bullets, so he has come up with a ".383 Christopherson", necked down 408 C-T. 375grn bullets. Have to see if Mike Rock will build him a barrel.

Dave

 

[Fiftydriver]

Dave,

You need to tell me your secret on building these lightweight rifles. I just finished up my 50 Allen Tactical which is basically my 338 Allen Mag necked up to 50 cal.

This rifle uses a 32" barrel that is basically identical to the 32" barrels you are using and also has a light BAT M 8.5 receiver. The stock is a McMillan A-5 made as light as possible with the solid fill under the single shot receiver.

With NF Ultralight rings and a very light Super Sniper scope I am still running over 16 lbs ready to shot with a bipod.

Now a 50 cal barrel on the same contour you are using for the 338 Sniper Tac is VERY light in comparision. It is even lighter then the same contour barrel with very large 3/8" flutes that I have here in the shop for a couple more 338 Allen Magnum projects.

You are the man at cutting rifle weight with the componants you use. I can see how you do this with ABS barrel but with all steel barrels and a repeating magazine system, it is amazing that you can get these rifles under 16 lbs ready to shoot. Is that with a full mag or empty.

I believe to meet the Idaho weight limit, the rifle would have to be loaded with the max number of rounds it is capable of holding.

Anyway, good job at keeping the rifle weight down, I am just mystified at how you do it with the contour of barrel your using and the size of the receivers your using which have to be significantly heavier then the BAT 1.55" diameter 8.5" receiver, at least your SS model that will eject a live round.

Just want some secrets if your willing to share!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

On the other hand, I think 15-16 lbs is plenty light for me for a rifle like this. For my 50 Allen Tactical, it may be a bit exciting touching off a 750 gr pill at 2450 to 2500 fps if we get that much which I feel very comfortable I can with top loads and the right powder charge.

On that note, will your receivers eject a live round with a 4.860" OAL? Thats what my 50 Allen Tactical measures with the A-Max seated to the lands.

Anyway, not trying to hijack the post, just curious how you cut that much weight off your rifles?

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Black Diamond 408]

Kirby,
Question, what does the stock weigh your using?
What does the 8.5" BAT action weigh?
What does the barrel weigh?

If your using a M24 type taper i would think its pretty heavy. The last stainless bbl i think was 6.2# Can't rem for sure, it was under 7# i know. 32" I had Mike Rock design me the lightest bbl he thought would still be accurate, we were shooting for 6#.

M24 Taper in ABS carbon is around 5# 32" You have to use Titanium and aluminum anywhere you can.

I have two new prototype stocks that are going on the next two ultra lights, they are under 24oz.

Break down of the lightest rifle:
ABS bbl, 5.5#
Ti action 2.5#
Stock 3#
--------------
total 11# give or take a few ounces.

The last all stainless repeater rifle i sent out with a IOR 6x24 scope, bi-pod, loaded was 15.75# I'm hoping with my new mag system i can reduce that by at least a extra pound. My barrels have very big flutes, they were cut on a Horizontal milling machine. Nice V grooves.

Only my dog knows my secrets, and he's not talking!

Dave

 

[Fiftydriver]

BD408,

Just figured the weight for my componants:

-Lilja barrel with 6 7/16" flutes...........5.7 lbs
-BAT 8.5" 1.55" diameter receiver...........3.2 lbs
-McMillan A-5 with light fill pillar bedded.4.3 lbs

Total.......................................13.2 lbs

Add to that the trigger, rail base and muzzle brake and you get around 14.5 lbs.

Add rings 8 oz, scope 22 oz ACI 1.5 oz, scope level 1 oz and Harris Bipod 10 oz and you have a final weight of 2.65 lbs in accessories for a final rifle weight, "Ready to hunt with" at 17.15 lbs.

Now obviosly you can get a lighter stock then this but the Lilja barrel with the very large flutes is nearly identical in weight to the ABS barrel, well 2 tenths of a pound anyway.

I guess with an ultra light carbon fiber stock you could drop finished rifle weight to the 14.5 lb range pretty easily.

Getting a repeater in that weight range is still a mystery to me but that certainly does not mean its possible, especially with a complete Ti receiver. Helps alot.

One question on those stocks that weigh in at 1.5 lbs, how stiff are the forends when you sit 13 lbs of rifle weight on them? Is there alot of flexing and how have you controled that for long range accuracy?

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Black Diamond 408]

If you want to shave more weight from the rifle, its gonna cost time and $$$. Every steel part you put in or on the rifle adds weight, subsitute where ever possible with lighter materials. Ounces add up very quick, one here... one there don't seem like much.

 

[James Jones]

Hey Kirby could you post a pic of that barrel , I'm gonn abe order a new one soon and want to get a look at what the Lilja can offer over what Rock Creek does.

 

[Fiftydriver]

JDJones,

I will try to remember to take the camera over to the shop in the morning and get a pic for you. Looks pretty darn sweet if you ask me.

Kirby Allen(50)