SOLD/EXPIRED To flute or not

[TackDriv3r]

I am in the process of making the list for my new build for GA Precision to build me a 6.5 Creedmoor. It will be the Crusader with a 26 inch barrel and 1:8 twist. Fluting will help reduce weight and have not made a decision. Will fluting reduce stiffness and rigidity and reduce accuracy at long range? Opinions is appreciated

 

[FearNoWind]

Fluted Barrel

 

[Citius7]

I read where it voids Shilen's warranty if their barrels are fluted. That turned me off to fluting.

 

[Edd]

I read where it voids Shilen's warranty if their barrels are fluted. That turned me off to fluting.

I read that too. It turned me off to Shilen's barrels.

 

[Tigerbikes]

Fluting is best done by the manufacturer before the rifling is cut.

If it's done by the manufacturer you shouldn't have any issues and it definitely cuts down on the weight.

 

[DanHalen762]

I read that too. It turned me off to Shilen's barrels.

Hahaha!! That's hilarious.

 

[J E Custom]

Like everyone, I have an opinion based on experience and not on my preferences.

As far as accuracy = Bench rest shooters don't use fluted barrels because they feel that any chance of small differences in the barrel thicknesses and the possibility of irregularities no matter how minute, could effect harmonics. I personally feel that on a large over bored cartridge, fluting can effect the accuracy by removing barrel material. In the same contour, a fluted barrel is not as stiff as a non fluted barrel. The best rule of thumb, is that a fluted barrel of the same length and caliber Has the same strength as a non fluted barrel of the same "weight" (Normally the next size down).

I don't recommend having fluting done by anyone but the barrel maker so it has to go through his quality control before it is shipped and he warranties it. One reason barrel makers don't like others fluting there barrels is the issue of there quality. And the effect it may have on there barrel. There are many good smiths that can/do good work, but there are just as many that don't do good work.
(years ago before I started building rifles, I had a barrel fluted and it had to be the worst fluting job I have ever seen. And it grossly effected accuracy and the barrel had to be replaced. with the new Un Fluted barrel it shot sub 1/4 MOA. once the barrel was removed, I sectioned the barrel and actually was shocked at what I saw. It was much worse than it looked.

I really like the looks of fluting done right and have several that shoot very well, but being very cautious, I prefer to use non fluted heavy barrels on the big/powerful cartridges And have been successful with this philosophy.

Fluting does not save enough weight to take a chance of effecting accuracy just to save ounces.

You will have to decide if fluting is best for you or just cool.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Dosh]

Like everyone, I have an opinion based on experience and not on my preferences.

As far as accuracy = Bench rest shooters don't use fluted barrels because they feel that any chance of small differences in the barrel thicknesses and the possibility of irregularities no matter how minute, could effect harmonics. I personally feel that on a large over bored cartridge, fluting can effect the accuracy by removing barrel material. In the same contour, a fluted barrel is not as stiff as a non fluted barrel. The best rule of thumb, is that a fluted barrel of the same length and caliber Has the same strength as a non fluted barrel of the same "weight" (Normally the next size down).

I don't recommend having fluting done by anyone but the barrel maker so it has to go through his quality control before it is shipped and he warranties it. One reason barrel makers don't like others fluting there barrels is the issue of there quality. And the effect it may have on there barrel. There are many good smiths that can/do good work, but there are just as many that don't do good work.
(years ago before I started building rifles, I had a barrel fluted and it had to be the worst fluting job I have ever seen. And it grossly effected accuracy and the barrel had to be replaced. with the new Un Fluted barrel it shot sub 1/4 MOA. once the barrel was removed, I sectioned the barrel and actually was shocked at what I saw. It was much worse than it looked.

I really like the looks of fluting done right and have several that shoot very well, but being very cautious, I prefer to use non fluted heavy barrels on the big/powerful cartridges And have been successful with this philosophy.

Fluting does not save enough weight to take a chance of effecting accuracy just to save ounces.

You will have to decide if fluting is best for you or just cool.

J E CUSTOM

Excellent explanation, an extremely talented rifle builder friend who has now passed explained fluting pros and cons the same way years ago. He also said fluting added stress. Fluting adds aesthetic appeal to a rifle and we've all seen beautiful examples, but I still haven't replaced a barrel with a fluted one. I'm probably in the minority on this subject, just my opinion.

 

[FearNoWind]

...Fluting does not save enough weight to take a chance of effecting accuracy just to save ounces.

You will have to decide if fluting is best for you or just cool.

J E CUSTOM

Whether fluting, good or bad workmanship, affects the stiffness of the barrel is a matter for conjecture for most of use who are not physicists. But simple physics should make it clear that any change in the barrel's shape, length, diameter, etc. will have some affect on its performance. Most of the articles I've read about fluting barrels don't go very deep into whether the barrels tested were fluted properly (consistently cut spacing, depths, lengths and widths of flutes) and whether they were cut CNC or "by guess and by golly". J E Custom hit the nail on the head. IMO, fluting doesn't save enough weight to bother with and because I'm not in this shooting game to look cool I just don't see any meaningful purpose for doing it.

 

[Mickey D]

I have two long range guns,300wm unfluted and a 270 wby which is fluted. Both are rock bbls . the 300 I bought from a guy on line. the 270 came from Rock. I asked if fluting would hurt and was told no. That they finished the bbl and fluted it then went back over the lands.
Both of my guns will shoot 1/4 from cold bbl three shots fairly quickly. It did take some work to make them shoot that good.
300-210 VLD and the 270- 165 Matrix.

 

[TackDriv3r]

Thanks guys for the great advises, I have never had a custom barrel fluted since I bought an out of the box Rem. Sendero 7mm STW SS with the flutes back in the 90's. After reading these advises I am now sticking with a non fluted barrel. I rather look at a different variable if I ever have an accuracy problem instead of a possible fluting issue. GA Precision will guarantee 3/8 inch groups with Match ammo with flutes or without. They built me a Crusader .308 non fluted that shoots so good that it has become one of my favorite rifles. I am in the process of filling the list for a new 6.5 Creed build with no flute. Thanks again.

 

[J E Custom]

Thanks guys for the great advises, I have never had a custom barrel fluted since I bought an out of the box Rem. Sendero 7mm STW SS with the flutes back in the 90's. After reading these advises I am now sticking with a non fluted barrel. I rather look at a different variable if I ever have an accuracy problem instead of a possible fluting issue. GA Precision will guarantee 3/8 inch groups with Match ammo with flutes or without. They built me a Crusader .308 non fluted that shoots so good that it has become one of my favorite rifles. I am in the process of filling the list for a new 6.5 Creed build with no flute. Thanks again.

Tack, I hope I did not talk you out of something that you wanted because that was not my intent.

The problem I see with fluting is the added chance of dimensional differences. It is easy to taper a barrel to exact dimensions to the bore, It is not quite as easy to contour a barrel as true because it is not structurally as sound as a straight taper and can flex more in the mill if not supported as well or better. When fluting, you add the extra chance of having a disproportionate amount of material
on one side than the other due to many factors. even though it may be very small this material can cause a shift in the POI as the barrel warms up. These changes may not be visible to the average shooter and at close distances may not be important. But this is the Long Range game, and any loss of accuracy counts.

There are so many "IF's" Related to fluting that if pure accuracy is the goal, the best chance of having the best results will be a straight "Bull" shape or a straight taper. The more you do to the outside of a barrel the better the chance of giving up some of the barrels accuracy potential. It is more of a gamble than a straight or bull shape.

There are many fine shooting fluted barreled rifles, so it can be done, But the odds are not as good
as with a non fluted barrel. so that is the reason I posted the pros and cons of fluting was to help in making a decision that was best for the shooters depending on the outcome wanted and the odds of getting the best results.

This is not based on anything but experience with many different barrel and finished shapes. I have frequently re contoured and tapered poor shooting barrels and without exception they all performed better once the dimensional differences were removed even though the barrel was slightly lighter.

Just my experiences with different barrel finished shapes.

J E CUSTOM

 

[WeiserBucks]

I have one fluted bbl , a Krieger done by Pro Precision Rifles in Haines, OR . The rifle shot just over 3/4 MOA when I fist purchased it used in an AICS with no brake.

I bedded it into a McMillan GameScout , installed a brake and Paul fluted the bbl . It now shoots 1/2 MOA on most days , much better than before. Obviously the fluting didnt make it more accurate, but certainly didn't hurt either.

 

[TackDriv3r]

Tack, I hope I did not talk you out of something that you wanted because that was not my intent.

The problem I see with fluting is the added chance of dimensional differences. It is easy to taper a barrel to exact dimensions to the bore, It is not quite as easy to contour a barrel as true because it is not structurally as sound as a straight taper and can flex more in the mill if not supported as well or better. When fluting, you add the extra chance of having a disproportionate amount of material
on one side than the other due to many factors. even though it may be very small this material can cause a shift in the POI as the barrel warms up. These changes may not be visible to the average shooter and at close distances may not be important. But this is the Long Range game, and any loss of accuracy counts.

There are so many "IF's" Related to fluting that if pure accuracy is the goal, the best chance of having the best results will be a straight "Bull" shape or a straight taper. The more you do to the outside of a barrel the better the chance of giving up some of the barrels accuracy potential. It is more of a gamble than a straight or bull shape.

There are many fine shooting fluted barreled rifles, so it can be done, But the odds are not as good
as with a non fluted barrel. so that is the reason I posted the pros and cons of fluting was to help in making a decision that was best for the shooters depending on the outcome wanted and the odds of getting the best results.

This is not based on anything but experience with many different barrel and finished shapes. I have frequently re contoured and tapered poor shooting barrels and without exception they all performed better once the dimensional differences were removed even though the barrel was slightly lighter.

Just my experiences with different barrel finished shapes.

J E CUSTOM

JE , not at all. You and others gave me great advice that I wanted to hear. It's just a gut feeling that I decided not to flute. I guess I just feel more comfortable if the barrel manufacturer would do the fluting instead of a gunsmith but the barrel has already been ordered. Thanks