Templaque placement input

[DartonJager]

I'm going to give Barrelnuts annealing method a try and use a cordless screwdriver and socket system to anneal my brass. Because of the position of the brass relative to my view will make seeing the inside of the case mouth difficult I am going to apply the 475* templaque as advised by others at 3/8"-1/2" below the junction of the case neck and shoulder.
Then while turning in the socket anneal (being careful not to put direct flame on the templaque) till the templaque melts and stop.
Will use BN rifle brass I have great amounts of to learn and become proficient before I anneal my 300wsm brass which I have less of.

Experienced based input most appreciated if there are any reasons not to apply templaque as I described.
Regards,
DTJager

 

[Mikecr]

any reasons not to apply templaque as I described.

It doesn't work for ****..
You're applying ~2200degF to necks, while waiting for heat migration to indicate lower on a case. What do you think that temperature means in an actual annealing process?

There is a recent offering for salt bath dipping that is cheap and potentially perfect. You should look into it. Ballistic Recreations- Essentials For Salt Bath Annealing – Tools and Accessories for Hobbyist Shooters

 

[gohring3006]

I use 750* Tempilac on the inside of the necks.
You're going to have to get in a position to see the inside of the neck for this crude method to work.
Although I seem to have very good results with this method. I still think it's a crude and not a precise way of annealing.

 

[DartonJager]

Thanks so much for the thoughtful replies I will give the salt bath a try for sure I can swing a annealing system for under $200
Again thanks so much
Art

 

[Barrelnut]

Annealing with a torch and cordless drill is a bit of an art and can be just as presise are you are. I leave the tempilaq in the reloading drawer. It is a huge pain to use, takes time to put it on, and more time to remove it. Plus while you are comtemplating the tempalaq color, the brass itself maybe getting too hot...

Time and color of the brass seem to be all that really matter. Do it in a fairly dark room while looking for the blue antiqued color and pull from the flame just before any red on the neck starts to appear. You'll have it down pat after 5 cases. Just count 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005, dump in the water and start another one.

I anneal for 7 different cases that are short long and super long and I usually anneal just 50 cases or maybe a 100 at a time. So it is probably quicker this way than setting up a mechinical annealer and adjusting for a particular case each time.

The salt bath is very much worth looking at also. All of these methods have a cost vs time vs precision factor to consider.

Since you seem to have some spare cases to play with, and probably have all the tools in the garage anyways, I would try the manual method first. This way you would have something for comparison when moving to salt bath or mechinical.

Good luck.

 

[CatShooter]

I'm going to give Barrelnuts annealing method a try and use a cordless screwdriver and socket system to anneal my brass. Because of the position of the brass relative to my view will make seeing the inside of the case mouth difficult I am going to apply the 475* templaque as advised by others at 3/8"-1/2" below the junction of the case neck and shoulder.
Then while turning in the socket anneal (being careful not to put direct flame on the templaque) till the templaque melts and stop.
Will use BN rifle brass I have great amounts of to learn and become proficient before I anneal my 300wsm brass which I have less of.

Experienced based input most appreciated if there are any reasons not to apply templaque as I described.
Regards,
DTJager

Templaque is a waste of time.

I use a cordless drill, heat the necks until they are dark red for 4-ish seconds...

... you can not use a fixed time because different cases requite different time.

It is easy. I anneal 2000 to 4000 cases a year, and have been annealing for almost 50 years.

It is not as critical as all the Chicken Littles say it is.

Dark red in brass is ~900-950... why go through all the mess (and expense) of melting salts... annealing with a battery screwdriver is so easy that I will take it out to anneal 5 cases.

By the way, melted sodium or potassium nitrate is extremely flammable - get it on clothing, wood, or anything else that is flammable and it will immediately catch fire and burn like mad.

 

[DartonJager]

Alright then I will give the manual way a try first especially since I will for the foreseeable future rarely if ever need to anneal more than 40 or so cases at a time.
I will use 338wm brass from a quite large amount I got for free to learn on by annealing then seating bullets on dummy annealer brass before I move on to the brass I'm actually reloading.

Catshooter where did you get that brass holder in the pic you posted? Is it the one sold by Hornady maybe?

Thanks to all,
Art

 

[FearNoWind]

I've tried Templaque - either it's a waste of time or I'm not smart enough to use it. I built a DIY annealer that works just fine and allows me full control over time of exposure, flame angle and flame temperature. I've watched some videos (and seen some images) where the flame front if focused on the mouth of the case. I disagree with that method because that's the thinnest portion of the area to be annealed and over annealing of the case mouth while trying to anneal the shoulder at the same time usually results in an over annealed case mouth and an under annealed shoulder.
My flame focuses on the shoulder/neck junction.

 

[DartonJager]

I've tried Templaque - either it's a waste of time or I'm not smart enough to use it. I built a DIY annealer that works just fine and allows me full control over time of exposure, flame angle and flame temperature. I've watched some videos (and seen some images) where the flame front if focused on the mouth of the case. I disagree with that method because that's the thinnest portion of the area to be annealed and over annealing of the case mouth while trying to anneal the shoulder at the same time usually results in an over annealed case mouth and an under annealed shoulder.
My flame focuses on the shoulder/neck junction.

You sir are correct on flame placement based on the overwhelming information i have either red or seen in videos, which I fervently hope is correct because I have exactly zero hands on experience annealing brass or anything else.

I recently was the benefactor of a windfall of a large amount of 30/06 brass as well as already having a huge stock pile of 338wm brass so they well as I said be used for my annealing learning curve.
Thanks again to all for your input and help
Art D.

 

[CatShooter]

xxx

 

[CatShooter]

Alright then I will give the manual way a try first especially since I will for the foreseeable future rarely if ever need to anneal more than 40 or so cases at a time.
I will use 338wm brass from a quite large amount I got for free to learn on by annealing then seating bullets on dummy annealer brass before I move on to the brass I'm actually reloading.

Catshooter where did you get that brass holder in the pic you posted? Is it the one sold by Hornady maybe?

Thanks to all,
Art

Yes, it was made by Hornady - but they stopped making them cuz they were too expensive (~$55)...

... everyone now uses wrench sockets - you can get a set of Chinee sockets for your electric battery screwdriver for ~$10 on eBay

You can see from this metallurgical chart, that brass doesn't get into the stable zone of annealing until 900-950° F is reached.

Now, the interesting thing about that is, 900-950° is the temperature that brass just begins to show dark red in a flame... and at 950° and above, it doesn't make any difference how long you heat it, or if you use a hotter flame, the hardness is stable.

But if you are dumb enough to use 662° or 750° or any of the other goofy "Magic" temperatures that are touted around on the internet gun sites, you are in the steepest part of the annealing curve, so any change in time or temperature will result in differences in the level of an incomplete anneal.

 

[CatShooter]

By the way...

You cannot depend on the colors of the brass to tell you when it is done.

The cases on the left are UNFIRED Remington 6mm (244) that were annealed with a torch to ~950-ish for 4 seconds.

The cases on the right were from the same lot, and annealed at the same time with the same torch - everything was same same...

Except one group had been washed in detergent and the other was not.

 

[g0rd0]

Templaque is a waste of time.

I use a cordless drill, heat the necks until they are dark red for 4-ish seconds...

... you can not use a fixed time because different cases requite different time.

It is easy. I anneal 2000 to 4000 cases a year, and have been annealing for almost 50 years.

It is not as critical as all the Chicken Littles say it is.

Dark red in brass is ~900-950... why go through all the mess (and expense) of melting salts... annealing with a battery screwdriver is so easy that I will take it out to anneal 5 cases.

By the way, melted sodium or potassium nitrate is extremely flammable - get it on clothing, wood, or anything else that is flammable and it will immediately catch fire and burn like mad.

this is the same method I use, To hold my cases I use the Lee shell holder for their hand trimming. I put it in my cordless drill on low speed for around 4 seconds then air cool. I anneal every time (deprime, anneal, clean size and trim) Works for me

 

[Buckskinner]

Just have to figure out what works for you as you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out annealing on the web. Just in this two page string, there are conflicting opinions on annealing... I built a cake pan annealer that works great for me. Kind of higher end drill method as it is automated so much less human error involved.

Interesting that based on picture Catshooter aims flame at case mouth instead of shoulder, exactly what FearNoWind said to avoid...