Square behind the rifle or no?

[GuroChris]

OK, so I have a parallel question to my recoil management/self spotting thread.

The wife was good enough to help with taking a photo of me behind the rifle. The position felt good, and I'm positive if I had fired the shot it would have been good. We had the dogs with us and they are real gun shy so it was dry fire only.

The ground I'm laying on is where I typically shoot from on my property. Its not nearly smooth and level and in that photo my bipod was at full extention and the rifle just barely cleared the grass. My right shoulder seems square to the rifle to me. The left shoulder looks to me to be just a bit forward of square. But, I had a complete reconstruction on that shoulder from the AC joint all the way out a while back so getting it comfortable is tough.

Do you all think I have enough of my body behind the rifle? And with the addition of the muzzle brake I have coming do you suppose I should be able to spot my shots?

 

[LaHunter]

Not sure if this is correct or not, but I have read that you want your spine to be pretty close to being in alignment with your target. If you draw an imaginary line up your spine in the photo, it appears that the line would be off to the right.
This is something that I constantly am working on when I shoot.

 

[Capt RB]

You are not lined up for npa you are pointing your body at 1230 and the rifle at 1200. You're rolling your head over so the comb needs to come up also. You need an adjustable butt pad it is too low for good recoil management.
This is a bit of expansion on what you are trying to do when you line the spine up with the rifle. In the position, you are in you are more like a hinge vs a fence post. I'm exaggerating a bit so you can visualize it. The gun by not being in line with your spine will act more like a hinge and move further than if you reposition your hips to the right, your left leg straighter and right leg further right or whatever is comfortable. I will bend my right knee and dig in my toes on hard kicking rifles for more purchase.
Dial your scope back to 8 or 10 and shoot the way you are and then as close as I just described. Don't look at group size or how close to the bullseye you just shot. Look at where the rifle is after the shot. You should be within 2 moa of point of aim when you have this down. You will get there it just takes proper practice
You can address your comb height with foam rubber and tape or a cheek pad (do the foam first so you know which height to buy if you're going to buy it)
The buttplate is a purchase as is will be tough to get to 2moa.

 

[GuroChris]

Cap,

Thanks for the detailed analysis! There is already a padded strap on cheek pad on the rifle. Maybe I can beef it up some. Just that some of the adjustable ones I've seen are really super expensive for what they are. Is there one you would recommend?

 

[dfanonymous]

Looks already covered but here is another visual. Yellow is your shoulders. Blue is adjacent

 

[Capt RB]

Cap,

Thanks for the detailed analysis! There is already a padded strap on cheek pad on the rifle. Maybe I can beef it up some. Just that some of the adjustable ones I've seen are really super expensive for what they are. Is there one you would recommend?

When I was in the service I used a couple of socks and black duct tape. This was early 80's. I have made high combs with weather striping carpet foam underlayment styrofoam using velcro to attach. once you shape what ever you use a rattle can will make it look pretty decent. Use your imagination as to what you can use and how to attach it so you can clean the gun.
I bought one of these for a buffer tube stock on an mdt chassis. I used 2, 1/4 20 carriage bolts and drilled the tube once I had my eye relief. I did the holes so they are in consecutive order so I can move it back and forth a bit. I also added a folder so I can clean without readjusting the thing every time. You could use it they will go over a conventional stock without a cheek piece

Tactical Cheek Rest

This is a replacement cheek rest for the XLR Tactical & Tactical Lite buttstocks. This cheek rest is also commonly used as an aftermarket upgrade for those looking to add an adjustable cheek rest to their rifle stock.

xlrindustries.com

 

[Bang4theBuck]

I think a lot about this as well, but when I watched the 'king of 2 mile' videos from a year or so ago, prone shooting position was not very common at all, from one shooter to the next. Most had some degree of cant to the off hand side with their hips. As you all know every little thing has a significant downrange affect at those ranges, especially with the sort of recoil that those big guns generate. Made me wonder if consistency isnt all that matters. Food for thought.

 

[LaHunter]

Cap,

Thanks for the detailed analysis! There is already a padded strap on cheek pad on the rifle. Maybe I can beef it up some. Just that some of the adjustable ones I've seen are really super expensive for what they are. Is there one you would recommend?

You can put padding under the strap on 'stock pack' type cheek piece to increase the height. I have the Karsten Kydex cheek risers on 2 HS Precision stocks. These work well, but you will need to drill 2 holes in butt of your stock. They are a little pricey if you just look at the materials, but they are worth it based on their function, in my opinion.

 

[Jud96]

I have just recently been paying attention to what people recommend for prone shooting. I have never followed any of these laws and I shoot well and don't have a problem dealing with recoil impulses. I've never had someone take a picture of me from directly behind, but I know I shoot with my legs canted to the left. Again, I have never really worked hard on tweaking my style because it has worked for me. I have tried sitting straight in line with the rifle like most say is the right way and it's super uncomfortable and not natural feeling for me. To each their own though.

 

[Capt RB]

I have just recently been paying attention to what people recommend for prone shooting. I have never followed any of these laws and I shoot well and don't have a problem dealing with recoil impulses. I've never had someone take a picture of me from directly behind, but I know I shoot with my legs canted to the left. Again, I have never really worked hard on tweaking my style because it has worked for me. I have tried sitting straight in line with the rifle like most say is the right way and it's super uncomfortable and not natural feeling for me. To each their own though.

Gun fit does play an important role also. More than half the reasons are for years "gun writers" told everyone they needed the scope as close as possible to the bore. They shot off a bench or offhand not prone. As a rule "hunting" stocks are terrible for prone shooting with big drops of the heel that causes the rifle to hinge up. If you started with that style stock straight behind wouldn't allow you to have any recoil pad on your shoulder. Move that recoil pad above the bore line and you will see a difference on target no matter how well your shooting now. My 308 has an adj butt plate. The comb and heel are at the center of the bore. I can move the pad in all directions and will have it toe up 3/4 from bottom and heel tilted into me at the 10 o'clock position. 3 times dislocated that shoulder and this works best for my situation. Healthy I would move it that high and slide the whole pad in or out depending on bipod or sling use prone, level for positional and down for standing slung or barricade. A small t-hex key for this is needed but with a new one you can preset and they are toolless.
A good fitting firearm does nothing but improves your habit. I was a good club shooter with sporting clays. I got fitted by Aygob Boyajian when I got serious. It helped propel me to 3 state championships. Many of the wins I would have been an also ran if it were not for that extra bird or 2 his work did for me. More importantly, I finished 2nd to a friend in my squad with a new gun that fit pretty well out of the box. After Jack's magic, I won the next 2 shoots without a shoot-off.
He was Kim Rhodes stock fitter at the time also Not that I'm anywhere near her class of shooter.

 

[Chase723]

Do you shoot well that way? Can you already spot your own shots? If so then honestly it's fine. Sometimes it's also a terrain issue. I.e. you physically can't get square behind the rifle, and then you shoot how you can. If not, then if it was me I would square up more behind the gun. Whenever possible point the rifle at the target, and then lay straight behind the rifle. Put the butt/recoil pad high and medial on your clavicle (basically puts the rifle as central as is comfortable on your body). This shooting position does a LOT mitigate recoil. Your whole body is stacked against the rifle and it has to shove through all of it instead of just pushing your shoulder back. If it's hard to do then put a pack or something under your chest and get your chest and belly a little off the ground. That helps both with the translation of your heartbeat to your weapon and puts your head in a more comfortable position. I.e. you won't have to crane your neck as much.

 

[Chase723]

 

[GuroChris]

Accuracy doesn't seem to be an issue. What I'm trying to do is refine a technique or position so that I can spot my own shots. In that photo I was totally comfortable on the rifle. I'm sure the hit would be there for me but I'm not sure I would have been able to see the hit as it happened. Historically I'd be riding the recoil and trying to get the scope back down to a position where I could see the hit on the target some time after the fact.

The recoil isn't enough to induce a flinch but when the rifle settles down out of recoil the sights are never where they were when the shot broke.

 

[Aussie Hunter Steve]

OK, so I have a parallel question to my recoil management/self spotting thread.

The wife was good enough to help with taking a photo of me behind the rifle. The position felt good, and I'm positive if I had fired the shot it would have been good. We had the dogs with us and they are real gun shy so it was dry fire only.

The ground I'm laying on is where I typically shoot from on my property. Its not nearly smooth and level and in that photo my bipod was at full extention and the rifle just barely cleared the grass. My right shoulder seems square to the rifle to me. The left shoulder looks to me to be just a bit forward of square. But, I had a complete reconstruction on that shoulder from the AC joint all the way out a while back so getting it comfortable is tough.

Do you all think I have enough of my body behind the rifle? And with the addition of the muzzle brake I have coming do you suppose I should be able to spot my shots?View attachment 182972

I reckon you need to get your head upright, that'll help a lot. Good luck...