Rifle upgrade questions

[catamountsierra]

Since I was recently in a car accident, at some point I might be seeing some money come my way. I want to do some upgrades on my rifle, including a new barrel and maybe truing the receiver, but I haven't done this kind of thing before. Since I don't have the money yet, I have time to do some research and plan things out. I have enjoyed reading the forum and learned quite a bit, but still have questions.
The rifle in question is a Remington 700 SA ADL, stainless steel, chambered in 7mm-08. I put in a Timney trigger rather than lose my rifle to the recall for who knows how long, and I have put an HS Precision stock on it. It currently sports a Vortex 4-16x44 HS-T scope, and seems to shoot roughly minute of angle at best.
I want to replace the stock barrel, and would like something a little heavier (maybe a pound or so) but not too heavy to carry all day in rugged country. I like the 24" length, and it seems to work well. I like the 7mm-08, but have been toying with trying the AI version to get a hair more speed. I have generally been using the 140gr AB for hunting, but and trying to get some 162gr ELD-X bullets worked out, though I think that is as heavy as I would likely go in a 7mm-08. I am assuming that a 1 in 9" twist should be fine. So, questions.
I see lots of options on number of grooves, type of rifling, etc. but haven't seen much discussion of, say, whether a 6-groove barrel or a 3-groove barrel would be better. I see a lot of people saying good things about the 5-R barrels, but is this just hype? Do different numbers of grooves make any functional difference?
If I only want to go about a pound and a bit heavier on the barrel, what contours should I be looking at? I keep looking at the spec tables and at this point I just have trouble making sense of it.
What should I be looking at in terms of truing up the receiver?
How much difference would the Wyatts mag box make in terms of overall length? I can get to 2.825" in the factory magazine.
So far I have just been tightening the action into the aluminum bedding block, but have thought about getting it bedded at some point too.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Let's see, first off you don't need bench rest accuracy to go hunting !! If you want to shoot tiny groups get yourself a 6 PPC or BR and join the circuit, it is not needed in the hunting world...your shooting at a basketball for deer and a beach ball for elk, ANY modern off the shelf rifle easily accomplishes this, out to reasonable and comfortable shooting distances--too be determined by your shooting skills and bench time. Far more important are scope choice and bullet choice in the hunting world, too many if's with the low drag, this and that bullets, some work in this but not in that, stick with time tested partitions/x-bullet, their more than good enough for reasonable hunting distances but not on the bench rest circuit. Light gathering and clarity matter in in the hunting world, these days it seems I pay more for scopes than rifles, can't hit what I can't see. In the hunting world barrel grooves matter nothing, the targets are big unless you claim to brain shoot them, don't loose any sleep over that issue. Since you picked the 7/08 you've already limited your distances, it is about the perfect deer/even elk rifle as long as you can hit those basketballs, with little practice you should be good to 400 yards, further you'll have to put time in and money to be consistent, reading wind, mirage and other issues then must be learned...just enjoy the hunt, don't driveyourself nuts over things that don't matter in the hunting world!!

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Let's see, first off you don't need bench rest accuracy to go hunting !! If you want to shoot tiny groups get yourself a 6 PPC or BR and join the circuit, it is not needed in the hunting world...your shooting at a basketball for deer and a beach ball for elk, ANY modern off the shelf rifle easily accomplishes this, out to reasonable and comfortable shooting distances--too be determined by your shooting skills and bench time. Far more important are scope choice and bullet choice in the hunting world, too many if's with the low drag, this and that bullets, some work in this but not in that, stick with time tested partitions/x-bullet, their more than good enough for reasonable hunting distances but not on the bench rest circuit. Light gathering and clarity matter in in the hunting world, these days it seems I pay more for scopes than rifles, can't hit what I can't see. In the hunting world barrel grooves matter nothing, the targets are big unless you claim to brain shoot them, don't loose any sleep over that issue. Since you picked the 7/08 you've already limited your distances, it is about the perfect deer/even elk rifle as long as you can hit those basketballs, with little practice you should be good to 400 yards, further you'll have to put time in and money to be consistent, reading wind, mirage and other issues then must be learned...just enjoy the hunt, don't drive yourself nuts over things that don't matter in the hunting world!!

 

[FEENIX]

So, questions.
I see lots of options on number of grooves, type of rifling, etc. but haven't seen much discussion of, say, whether a 6-groove barrel or a 3-groove barrel would be better. I see a lot of people saying good things about the 5-R barrels, but is this just hype? Do different numbers of grooves make any functional difference?
If I only want to go about a pound and a bit heavier on the barrel, what contours should I be looking at? I keep looking at the spec tables and at this point I just have trouble making sense of it.

No expert in any means but I am on my second 3-groove barrel from Lilja and I am very pleased with them to say the least. They are so easy to clean and hardly copper fouls; one is a 30" 1:8" #6 contour chambered for .270 AI and the other is 27" 1:9" Rem contour chambered in .30 Lara.

FAQ - Lilja

Most barrel manufacturers has a FAQ or a system in place to calculate/determine weight per contour; I like Barrel Contours - PAC-NOR Barreling, Inc. - Precision Rifle Barrels - Pac-Nor.com

What should I be looking at in terms of truing up the receiver?

Check out our resident gunsmiths' comment starting at #31 of http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/stock-action-vs-blueprinted-vs-custom-176094/index5.html

Good luck on your project and recover well.

Cheers!

Ed

 

[catamountsierra]

While I know that minute of angle is probably good enough for most hunting situations, I have always preferred to have as accurate a rifle as possible. My brother shoots the precision rifle matches with his rifles, and frankly the accuracy of his rifles makes me jealous, and I shoot his far better than I shoot my own, which makes me think my rifle is currently the limit; he hasn't been able to shoot my rifle any better than I do either. I have plenty of time on this, so keep the info coming. I need to start taking notes...

 

[catamountsierra]

I am also open to other suggestions too. I have no idea what my budget on this might be, so I can maybe open things up a bit and dream too. As to my choice of the 7mm-08, lets just say I am very happy with it but not entirely set on it. Part of me has been contemplating a 7RM too, but that would be a whole new rifle.

 

[FEENIX]

I am also open to other suggestions too. I have no idea what my budget on this might be, so I can maybe open things up a bit and dream too. As to my choice of the 7mm-08, lets just say I am very happy with it but not entirely set on it. Part of me has been contemplating a 7RM too, but that would be a whole new rifle.

Establishing a realistic budget is normally the first thing I do, then adjust accordingly.

 

[sable tireur]

catamountsierra,

Most of your questions or curiosities are straight forward.

I see a lot of people saying good things about the 5-R barrels, but is this just hype? Do different numbers of grooves make any functional difference?

Most rifling forms can be made to shoot accurately at some point. This statement is meant to include all of the top rated makers in the US as well as some in Europe and the UK. Choosing 3-, 4-, 5-, 5R- or 6 groove will not affect your accuracy noticeably as long as you and the rifle system are capable.

It is not hype at all. 5R rifling form has been around for about 30 years or so. It has proven to be an excellent form to the point that Remington was buying 5R barrels from an outside supplier until they could convert some of their capacity over to it. Bartlein is the the top maker right now and their expertise is the 5R form. Basically it is much easier to break in and clean, although their barrels are used by most of the top tier competition shooters in the US.

I would go ahead and have the action blueprinted since it won't hurt anything as long as you select a competent gunsmith.

Here is a barrel ready to ship:

Bartlein Barrel

Brand: Bartlein
Product Code: 7mm 8.7 twist SS Rem Sporter 27"

7mm 8.7 twist SS Remington Mag Sporter (Bartlein contour #19) 27"
this is a direct replacement for the factory remington sporter
5R rifling


If you want to go a little heavier they offer a 3b contour or even a #4.



Remember that the barrel channel will need to be inletted for the heavier barrel.



Bed the action stress-free for sure.

If your bother's rifles suit you better you may need to put away a few more bucks before embarking on that journey. I'll bet he's not using the 7mm-08 either...

Regards.

 

[catamountsierra]

Establishing a realistic budget is normally the first thing I do, then adjust accordingly.

I've never gotten a settlement before, and never been in a wreck like that either. When my wife was in a wreck that wasn't nearly as bad, she got 7 grand. I really have no idea, but I do anticipate that I should at least be able to get that rifle rebarreled, but maybe that is the lower end of my budget. I have no idea and likely won't until later when I get the money. Obviously, I won't be able to put all of it into my rifles, but I at least want that one shooting better. At this point I am dreaming of possibilities so I know what to start budgeting when the money comes around.

 

[catamountsierra]

If your bother's rifles suit you better you may need to put away a few more bucks before embarking on that journey. I'll bet he's not using the 7mm-08 either...

Regards.

He is shooting a 260AI for most of his competition out to, I think, 1400 yrds. He has been shooting his 300WM to a mile pretty consistently, and used it to take an elk at 795 a few weeks back. I am definitely considering using his smith; Norbert has a great reputation with a fair number of the competitors around here.

 

[FEENIX]

I am definitely considering using his smith; Norbert has a great reputation with a fair number of the competitors around here.

That would be the route I'd go too IIWY and work closely with him to formulate what best fits your
budget, intended use/application, etc ...

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Heck, I thought the 7/08 was etched in stone, in that case either the 7mm rm or 300wm are now in play...you can tone them down but can't tone the other that far up...no substitute for .308 holes in game !Don't forget a great trigger !

 

[catamountsierra]

I plan on sticking to the 7mm of some sort, and I am limited in that I am working with a 700SA, so the traditional 7RM or the 280AI are out due to that. If I was just getting a whole new rifle, I would lean heavily towards the 7RM. When it comes down to it, I don't think the critter on the receiving end will notice much difference between .284 or .308 diameter projectiles as long as I do my job. Both calibers have a wide selection of high quality bullets available to suit almost any job a hunter might ask of a rifle.
Given the short action limitation, the maximum overall length that currently feeds is 2.825" so I already plan on using a Wyatts mag box to gain a bit extra. I want it to handle the 162gr ELD-X.
The easiest cartridge option would be to stick with the standard 7mm-08 as I already have dies and brass. I am also toying with going with the 7mm-08AI, which means fireforming and new dies, or maybe even stepping up to the 284Win, which would mean new dies and brass. In some ways, that might be the preferable option.
If I use the Wyatts box, how long can I go? Midway says you can gain 0.110" which means 2.935".
How feasible would it be to go from 7mm-08 to 284Win during a barrel change? I assume that it would involve some work to get it to feed and I expect to lose at least 1 round of magazine capacity.

 

[catamountsierra]

I definitely plan to get a Wyatts magazine box, and am toying with stepping up to the 284 Winchester with the new barrel. Does anyone know if an overall length of 2.970" will feed reliably? The inside dimensions are supposed to be 2.995". Right now the factory Remington box limits me to 2.825". Also, center-feed or staggered, and what difference does it make?