Most balance beams weigh to .01 grain electronics weigh to .002 grain for inexpensive ones to .001 for expensive scales. .002 equals 1 granule of Varget , of you think that dodent make a difference than don't try F-class or 1000yd bench rest!
Reloading scale
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SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Now that we have beat the subject to death, anyone know how an electronic scale operates? Curious minds want to know....
And what seperates a good scale from a run of the mill one??
And what seperates a good scale from a run of the mill one??
Freedom2live
Well-Known Member
There's something so commonplace about a weighing device that it's easy to forget its deeper significance. As the slightly skewed spring scale hanging around the produce aisle reminds us, the scale has long served humans as the chief arbiter of commerce, the sine qua non of shipping and the utility player of the pharmaceutical bench. From the smallest, most fine-tuned laboratory balance to the 10-by-120-foot (3-by-37-meter) pit-and-girder monsters that weigh train cars and tractor-trailers, scales make modern life possible.
Scales -- or, more specifically, balances -- weighed heavily on the minds of ancient builders, inventors and economic advisers. Small balance weights dating back to the early fourth millennium B.C. provide some of the first hints of mankind's evolving grasp of numbers. The most basic surviving balance scale in Egypt predates the dynastic period, placing its construction at earlier than 3000 B.C. Like us, the ancient Egyptians applied scales both in trade and in assaying ores and alloys [sources: Encyclopaedia Britannica; Petruso].
Balances, which weigh an object by matching it against one or more reference weights, have a delicate touch and are still used in laboratories. Scales use somewhat different physical principles and mechanical components to measure weight and other forces (weight is simply the force on an object due to gravity). Spring scales, for example, measure weight using Hooke's law, which relates force (weight) to the stretching or compression of a spring made from a given material.
Not all scales use springs, but all measure weight using mechanical components. So, mechanical and digital scales differ only in how they display weight -- mechanically or electronically. In the latter case, the scale employs an analog-to-digital converter that translates the continuous readout data from the scale into discrete digital information, much in the way that a CD or MP3 encoding scheme digitizes the waveforms of music.
Generally speaking, digital scales require less expertise to use than those with mechanical readouts, and are capable of higher precision and faster processing. Still, the capabilities of specific devices may vary, particularly when the weights are measured in tons [sources: Camarda; Cox; Crowley].
"It depends," says Derrick Mashaney, director of product development at Fairbanks Scales Inc., which specializes in large industrial scales. "Several master scales are mechanical. They're tweaked to be so extremely accurate that there is nothing out there that compares to them."
Just as a roadside carjack might lift a car via mechanical advantage -- the leverage of a handle or the inclined plane of a screw -- while a mechanic's hoist might use hydraulic pressure, different scales weigh objects using a variety of operational principles, like hydraulics, pneumatics or bending beams.
Whatever makes them stretch, compress or sway, however, most modern scales share one component in common: a load cell
Scales -- or, more specifically, balances -- weighed heavily on the minds of ancient builders, inventors and economic advisers. Small balance weights dating back to the early fourth millennium B.C. provide some of the first hints of mankind's evolving grasp of numbers. The most basic surviving balance scale in Egypt predates the dynastic period, placing its construction at earlier than 3000 B.C. Like us, the ancient Egyptians applied scales both in trade and in assaying ores and alloys [sources: Encyclopaedia Britannica; Petruso].
Balances, which weigh an object by matching it against one or more reference weights, have a delicate touch and are still used in laboratories. Scales use somewhat different physical principles and mechanical components to measure weight and other forces (weight is simply the force on an object due to gravity). Spring scales, for example, measure weight using Hooke's law, which relates force (weight) to the stretching or compression of a spring made from a given material.
Not all scales use springs, but all measure weight using mechanical components. So, mechanical and digital scales differ only in how they display weight -- mechanically or electronically. In the latter case, the scale employs an analog-to-digital converter that translates the continuous readout data from the scale into discrete digital information, much in the way that a CD or MP3 encoding scheme digitizes the waveforms of music.
Generally speaking, digital scales require less expertise to use than those with mechanical readouts, and are capable of higher precision and faster processing. Still, the capabilities of specific devices may vary, particularly when the weights are measured in tons [sources: Camarda; Cox; Crowley].
"It depends," says Derrick Mashaney, director of product development at Fairbanks Scales Inc., which specializes in large industrial scales. "Several master scales are mechanical. They're tweaked to be so extremely accurate that there is nothing out there that compares to them."
Just as a roadside carjack might lift a car via mechanical advantage -- the leverage of a handle or the inclined plane of a screw -- while a mechanic's hoist might use hydraulic pressure, different scales weigh objects using a variety of operational principles, like hydraulics, pneumatics or bending beams.
Whatever makes them stretch, compress or sway, however, most modern scales share one component in common: a load cell
g0rd0
Well-Known Member
an electronic scale works with a preasure switch so, it is important that you place the charge center of the pad (the cheeper the scale the more important this is). As an item is placed on the pad the switch registers the difference in resitance (of the electricity passing through the switch) the chip then shows this resistance in a read out converted from milli ohms to grains.
Sully2
Well-Known Member
While I agree they can weigh 1 grain of Varget....one grain making a big difference...I seriously doubt!
Sully2
Well-Known Member
Ah ....Do WHAT????
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
My take is simply this...
The load cell and it's accompaning components and their ability to indicate a weight and do it with exact repetition, is entirely based on the quality of the components and we all know that most manufacturers buy the least expensive components and that would directly impact the accuracy, especially the repetitive accuracy..
Having said that, If I was to purchase an electronic scale, I'd buy the best available, not a cheap Chinese knockoff.....
Whereas...
A mechanical scale don't rely on electronics but rather a known differential between the item to be weighed and the offsetting weight on the balance beam. The only factor that impacts repetitive accurate repetitive weighing is the inherent friction between the axle on the beam and the bearings that support the axle.
Somehow, I believe Ohaus (in the case of RCBS beam scales) has extrapolated the frictional resistance and incorporated that into the beam itself.
Like everything else, you get what you pay for.
The load cell and it's accompaning components and their ability to indicate a weight and do it with exact repetition, is entirely based on the quality of the components and we all know that most manufacturers buy the least expensive components and that would directly impact the accuracy, especially the repetitive accuracy..
Having said that, If I was to purchase an electronic scale, I'd buy the best available, not a cheap Chinese knockoff.....
Whereas...
A mechanical scale don't rely on electronics but rather a known differential between the item to be weighed and the offsetting weight on the balance beam. The only factor that impacts repetitive accurate repetitive weighing is the inherent friction between the axle on the beam and the bearings that support the axle.
Somehow, I believe Ohaus (in the case of RCBS beam scales) has extrapolated the frictional resistance and incorporated that into the beam itself.
Like everything else, you get what you pay for.
boomtube
Well-Known Member
Most balance beams weigh to .01 grain electronics weigh to .002 grain for inexpensive ones to .001 for expensive scales. .002 equals 1 granule of Varget , of you think that dodent make a difference than don't try F-class or 1000yd bench rest!
Nonsense. I'm sure you read the web a lot but if you're going to present youself as a web authority you really need to get your terms correct. All reloading branded scales, beam and digital, are spect' at .1 gr (one tenth) because that's as much repeatability as reloaders need.
.01 gr = one hundreth of a grain
.002 gr. = two thousanths of a grain
No rationally priced scales are available with that kind of accuracy or repeatability, you're refering to lab scales costing in the tens of thousands of dollars.
If you think such tiny variations in powder charges make a difference at any range you're going to be shocked when you learn how variable the internal volume of the best of cases is and how much variation there is between any two primers.
Nonsense. I'm sure you read the web a lot but if you're going to present youself as a web authority you really need to get your terms correct. All reloading branded scales, beam and digital, are spect' at .1 gr (one tenth) because that's as much repeatability as reloaders need.
.01 gr = one hundreth of a grain
.002 gr. = two thousanths of a grain
No rationally priced scales are available with that kind of accuracy or repeatability, you're refering to lab scales costing in the tens of thousands of dollars.
If you think such tiny variations in powder charges make a difference at any range you're going to be shocked when you learn how variable the internal volume of the best of cases is and how much variation there is between any two primers.
Nonsense yourself jerk! Never claimed to be an expert, so I misplaced a 0, my bad. I am well aware of case volume a primer performance. If you knew anything about long range shooting you would know we seperate cases by weight and WATER VOLUME! We also do extensive load testing with different powders. That's the problem with forums, guys like you that have nothing constructive to add. Sincerely yours! JVON
varmintH8R
Well-Known Member
+1. Common sense says that this level of consistency is impossible to maintain over the whole cartridge "system". If you have a 40gr charge, .002 grains represents .005% variation. I would bet the in-lot consistency (accept/reject) spec for any powder is several orders of magnitude higher than that. Then mix in varying bulk density of the powder, tolerences in primers, cases, bullets etc (as Boomtube states) and you are looking at no tangible benefit that can be attributed to that level of precision in charge weight.
As usual both of you are speculating, grab your rifles capable of1000 yd precision shooting load with the kind of variations you are preaching , then tell me it doesn't matter. I do it weekly and have 1st hand experience, once again you are speculating
Sully2
Well-Known Member
varmintH8R
Well-Known Member
Whoa, easy tiger. Not trying to get personal. I think that holding to 0.005% variance is unrealistic, as manufacturing tolerance of all other components (including powder consistency) is going to be higher than that. If you disagree, please lead us to some data that proves your case (I have been wrong more than once before). I am not accepting "I do it every week" as data. The glory of Internet forums, either one of us could be a Camp Perry champion, or a lonely 15 year old tired of playing D&D . . .
I really don't want to see it get personal, I'd rather see a good discussion and learn something.
Varmit Hunter; As I said earlier my bad for misplacing 0's I use a A&D FX 300i and a Prometheus II which both hold 2 hundredths of a grain. I also check bearing surface on bullets and sort to .001 in , I trim meplats and repoint to increase ballistic coefficient. I weigh and sort cases to 1 grain then check h2o volume. I turn case necks to within .005 for consistent neck tension, then uniform primer pockets, flash holes and chamber outside and VLD champ her inside. No single item will make a visible diff in performance but all tolerances stacked certainly show on the target and the chronograph. My standard Diviations are generally in the single digits. By the way Sully , don't much care what you think! JVON
