Occasional cleaning incompatible with precision reloading?

[Jeffpatton00]

In various threads I see some say that they don't clean their rifles until they see accuracy drop off. I spent quite a while cleaning my 224 Valkyrie yesterday, and began to wonder if those who don't clean regularly are missing a point.

One of the things precision shooters seek is absolute consistency in everything they do in the reloading process, down to a half a thousandth or half a grain of tolerance where possible. The barrel obviously has a material impact on a fired round's performance, why would it make sense to leave the barrel in an uncontrolled condition, when great effort is made to control every other parameter? Are those who don't clean regularly primarily hunters who hunt at near to mid-distances, at which precision is less important? Do any precision shooters choose not to clean regularly? I don't mean to start a controversy but I am curious about this seeming inconsistency.

 

[Gamesniper19]

In various threads I see some say that they don't clean their rifles until they see accuracy drop off. I spent quite a while cleaning my 224 Valkyrie yesterday, and began to wonder if those who don't clean regularly are missing a point.

One of the things precision shooters seek is absolute consistency in everything they do in the reloading process, down to a half a thousandth or half a grain of tolerance where possible. The barrel obviously has a material impact on a fired round's performance, why would it make sense to leave the barrel in an uncontrolled condition, when great effort is made to control every other parameter? Are those who don't clean regularly primarily hunters who hunt at near to mid-distances, at which precision is less important? Do any precision shooters choose not to clean regularly? I don't mean to start a controversy but I am curious about this seeming inconsistency.

I am a fan of doing what the barrel likes. My thing is, I clean my barrels about every 200 rounds or so +/-. I clean them completely and thoroughly including the chamber and all bolt parts etc...
I then foul the barrel with 1 round and then depending the area that I am going to shoot, Ill usually chorono and then true dope which is about 6-9 more rounds.
I verify at 100 with chrono for 2-3 shots
True at 500 for 2-3 shots
True at the longest possible distance I may shoot for 2-3 shots (could be anywhere from 700 to 1200) I don't like to shoot critters past 800 - 1000 if at all possible and targets for me usually end up around 1300 - 1500. If I don't happen to shoot it that much in a couple of months, I will then start over instead of waiting for the barrel to tell me.

IMO there is a point where accuracy starts to fade with a dirty barrel and only your particular barrel will when that is. That is what really matters, period dot.
Hope that helps

 

[Recon$$]

When I was shooting comps. I'd get a good practice session in prior and just wipe her down. Wouldn't touch the barrel till after the comp. So anywhere from 200-350 rounds before I would clean the barrel. Worked for me. I won't clean a barrel unless I know I can put some rounds through it prior to hunting or comp shooting. Not cleaning the barrel has ever been an issue for me.

 

[Jeffpatton00]

So I'm curious, JMGamesniper & Recon$$, not cleaning after every shooting session works well for your purposes, to what lengths do you take your reloading process? Absolute precision on every parameter, with precise shoulder bumping, neck turning, precise neck tension, etc., or somewhere short of that?

 

[Gamesniper19]

So I'm curious, JMGamesniper & Recon$$, not cleaning after every shooting session works well for your purposes, to what lengths do you take your reloading process? Absolute precision on every parameter, with precise shoulder bumping, neck turning, precise neck tension, etc., or somewhere short of that?

My biggest tolerance control comes from a few spots, brass stretch and ensuring perfect alignment between brass and bullet to barrel. With that:

• I full length resize .001 back every time
• I trim case length to ensure .001 tolerance every time and ensure it is square to the chamber
• I make sure all neck tensions are consistent
• Measure every bullet from base to ogive and ensure seating tolerances are no more than .001 (my gauge reads to 10 thou)

In most of my rifles the actual powder charge is fine to within 1/10 of a grain. Especially in any rifle I am shooting that uses >40 grains of powder. IME that process has ensured that my rifles shoot consistently through every cycle.

 

[Recon$$]

Definitely a little short of that. I consider 1/2 MOA or better my standard. I accomplish that with uniform case trimming, full length sizing, and quality components. I don't dive into every aspect of reloading. I'd consider myself a fairly good reloader but not to the level some of the more serious guys take it. Sounds like you might be who I'm referencing. I'm definitely not trying different neck tensions. Never had the need for it with my purposes. I understand why, but I'm not chasing groups to that level of precision.

 

[Jeffpatton00]

Good info, thanks, guys.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, a clean freak I guess. I clean my rifles after every shooting session unless it was shot less then 20 rnds. Typically, I shoot about 3 fouling shots when I begin a session. I have ammo loaded with bullets and/or powder that I don't use anymore and just bang a few steel plates to get the bore minimally fouled.

It seems to work for me. The bore scope has yet to reveal the dreaded carbon ring in any of my squeaky clean barrels.

 

[Jeffpatton00]

My uninformed but logical assumption is that cleaning a barrel to "squeaky clean" sets everything back to a common baseline (except for erosion over time), so that after a set number of fouling shots, your precision shots always start from the same initial condition - just another variable to control, it seems to me, for those who want to control all variables so they can detect the results of changing a single variable like jump distance, powder charge, etc. I'll acknowledge that I'm probably well into the minutia, as Recon$$ notes, and a clean freak like Varmint Hunter. I raise the question, though, because of the wealth of info we can gain from experienced folks on the site, so I value everyone's feedback on this.

 

[Gamesniper19]

My uninformed but logical assumption is that cleaning a barrel to "squeaky clean" sets everything back to a common baseline (except for erosion over time), so that after a set number of fouling shots, your precision shots always start from the same initial condition - just another variable to control, it seems to me, for those who want to control all variables so they can detect the results of changing a single variable like jump distance, powder charge, etc. I'll acknowledge that I'm probably well into the minutia, as Recon$$ notes, and a clean freak like Varmint Hunter. I raise the question, though, because of the wealth of info we can gain from experienced folks on the site, so I value everyone's feedback on this.

I would say to both you and Varmint Hunter
For a comp or hunting rifle that I pull and shoot often (say every couple of weeks with my 6 CM or 6.5 GAP) its 200 rounds, same if I plan on shooting the same hunting rifle for the entire 3 month hunting season like a 7mm or big 30 cal. 200 or so rounds
There are instances with my heavy magnums that I pull 2 times per year and shoot about 50 rounds through, if I don't plan on shooting it again for 5 - 6 months after a practice session, Ill clean it completely. I would be very comfortable using the 200 round tule with them if I did shoot them that much in a day or two...might need to see a physical therapist thereafter though LOL

 

[jrock]

I believe it depends on the gun. I had a .17 HMR that would foul and loose accuracy after about 30 rounds. We are talking about going from 1/4 MOA to 3/8 MOA. I'd run a bore snake through it and it would return to shooting 1/4 MOA.

I was raised to clean a gun after each outing because the outings were few and far between and because of the potential for corrosion in a humid environment. It pains me to seen guns pulled out of closets that are green when you look down the barrel. I guess as long as it doesn't rust and it shoots well, you don't need to clean it. I have a friend who hits MOA sized steel at 1000 yards with a simple 308 that he hasn't cleaned it in over 1000 rounds.

 

[Mikecr]

It can depend on the bullet & barrel.
Most factory barrels copper foul out quickly.

 

[MagnumManiac]

For a custom lapped barrel that doesn't foul easily, it can handle 200-300 rounds without NEEDING to be cleaned.
A rough factory barrel will foul quickly, therefore REQUIRING frequent cleaning.
My match barrels shoot exactly the same clean or fouled, so cleaning them is not necessary. Barrels that change POI from clean to fouled, or cold bore differences, don't hang around long for me. If lapping said barrel makes no difference, it gets sent down the road. I don't want a barrel that takes several foulers to settle in, as people say.
What point is having a barrel that you clean, then have to shoot bullets in it so that it stops spraying bullets everywhere?
During a season of match shooting, I clean my bores with a carbon solvent and Hoppe's Benchrest between weekends, this may be 88 rounds or 172 rounds.
They get cleaned fully 3 times during this period so I can see the haze cracking and lengthening of the throat...I do not chase the lands either. I adjust powder charge to stay within a velocity window and tweak going forward. When the node is no longer achievable I set-back .100" or more and re-chamber as needed.
I nominally get 3 set-backs per barrel and well into 3500 rounds as a rule.
I shoot belted magnums, they eat barrels, but this can be managed by powder choice and bullet choice, temp stable powders help, but it is not always necessary to use them. Double base powders yield more Joules per grain of powder, burn cooler per specific weight and can lengthen throat life, as do ball powders.
Pressure, heat and time are your enemies for barrel life, control this, to a point, and you will have good barrel life, abuse it, and you will not.
Frequent cleanings with most of today's powder formulations should not be necessary, they have ingredients to help them burn cleaner and deposit less fouling.

Cheers.

 

[Zen Archery]

I never clean my barrel until it loses accuracy or environmental conditions drive me to clean it.