Notes on the Centenerian

[BigJohnH]

When you compare ballistics the data shows a different story to achieve the same velocity example 2900 ft/sec using 4064 powder the 30-06 requires 50.3 grs where the .308 requires only 45.5 for the same result. When figuring cost and performance you get nearly one extra load for the .308 for every 30-06 based on the above data given the load difference of 4.7grs less for the .308.

 

[Poppadoer]

It would be a disaster if we all liked the same things.Variety is the spice of life.Enjoy your choice and happy reloading.

 

[cariboo crawler]

Ask Carlos Hathcock (WhiteFeather)
About the 30-06 . Model 70 . Legendary sniper in the Vietnam war .
My hero . He passed away in 1999 but his interviews are on you tube . Should watch them .
Nothing wrong with 308 ,,,, it's a 308 . My old hunting partner used a 3o-06 and yes it was his only hunting rifle .
Long live the 30-06!

 

[Kgkimerer]

Shooters disregard the 30-06 because they hear that a .308 is so close to it as to make no difference, not because of any experience with reloading in general.

The 30-06 has 21% more case capacity of a .308 . That puts it nowhere close. When the manufacturers figures put .308 ballistics close to a 30-06, the pressure of the .308 is running higher than for the 30-06, so it is not an equal comparison. The 30-06 can approach the low end of the .30 magnums with equivalent bullet weights, which a .308 simply cannot.

The design of the 30-06 case lends itself to excellent accuracy potential. The ratio of the neck length to bore size is high for caliber, and exceeds the .30 caliber magnums. This means the bullet can be seated clear of the powder column, which is great for performance and accuracy.

When knocking 30-06 performance capability as "old wives tales" and "myths" of "special powers" , please save the yarn and try get to the numbers. Stick to quoting verifiable numbers.

There is nothing new from cartridges ballistically . A lot of cartridges duplicate each other's ballistics with specific bullet weights. The real innovations have been in bullet manufacture and platform evolution, giving us the long range capability that we have today.

The 30-06 should not be compared to any Creedmoor. Creedmoor calibers were designed with a shorter powder column to reduce recoil for target shooters - specifically to keep the scope on target after the shot. To compensate for the reduced powder capacity, the cartridge was mated to high BC bullets to reduce drop at long distance. This does not equate to terminal performance at long distance.

Taking the centenarian, loading it with the right powder, and mating it to suitable high BC bullets will give very interesting results.

The 30-06 cartridge is just under-rated, it is not inferior.

Love my 06. Other cartridges for other uses.

 

[Hookdown]

The 30-06 should not be compared to any Creedmoor. Creedmoor calibers were designed with a shorter powder column to reduce recoil for target shooters - specifically to keep the scope on target after the shot. To compensate for the reduced powder capacity, the cartridge was mated to high BC bullets to reduce drop at long distance. This does not equate to terminal performance at long distance.

I'm not going to comment on the 30-06 vs 308 comparison. It's not anything I'm interested or versed in, because neither is a cartridge I'd use. For MY (maybe not your) uses, there are better choices than either. But I will speak about something I do know. When you say that BC does not equate to terminal performance, that tells me that either you don't understand what BC is or means, or that your bias gets in the way of logic, facts and physics. That's EXACTLY what a higher BC bullet does for you. It helps with terminal performance in the aspects of wind drift, bullet speed and residual energy. When hunting, those are the 3 main things you ARE concerned with. Take for instance my 7 Rem Mag. I had it built/ chambered to shoot Berger 195 EOL bullets. They have an extremely high BC. By doing that, I can get the same energy and speed (TERMINAL PERFORMANCE) at 1200 yards that another 7 Rem Mag shooting lower BC bullets has at 800 or 900 yards. Whether you know or believe that is irrelevant of the fact that it's true and verifiable. So again, before you start speaking with authority on a subject, on a forum filled with very knowledgeable folks, be sure you understand what you are talking about. Or make sure your biases don't get in the way of your "conclusions."

I'll chime in on one other aspect. It's fun to hear the close-minded folks bash the 6.5 CM. It's as common as the Vortex scope bashing and just as silly. People win current matches, titles, championships, etc. with the 6.5 CM. There are very few, if anyone, winning today with a 30-06. The same characteristics that make the 6.5 CM a top contender in competition make it a great hunting round for appropriate game at appropriate ranges. And that envelope is larger than most close-minded people think. There is a whole lot done right with the CM: rifles built with appropriate twist and features, high quality widely available factory ammo, low recoil, appropriate action length and great overall ammo and rifle support. We should be applauding companies that do that, not bashing them.

 

[zb338]

There are those of us that shot the 30/06 cartridge while serving in the Army.
Back in the day there was still a lot of 172 grain Boat Tail ammo lying around.
We always thought of the '06 as a bad *** cartridge and a lot of us still do.

Zeke

 

[CCAguns]

So let me muddy the water a bit more...let's say I have .308 shooting a 180gr bullet at 2600 fps and have a 06 shooting the same bullet at the same speed. Which would have the advantage over the other? And more importantly.....why?

I agree to with your theory if both bullets have the same speed. But I'm not sure why your '06 is so slow with 180gr bullets? I get 2800fps with Nosler 180gr Partitions out of my 22" '06 barrel.

I can understand using the 308 Win for a semi-auto rifle (semis work better with shorter OALs), but I've never appreciated the benefit of a short action for a bolt action, big game hunting rifle. Pulling the bolt another 1/2" (actually less) is unnoticeable to the hunter. Being able to seat bullets farther out and improve velocities has its benefits.

Newer powders have even made the old '06 even better. Hornady's Superperformance ammo provides over 3000fps with its 150gr hunting bullet. My chrony verified this.

With its vast bullet selection and today's powders, I can't imagine being undergunned anywhere in North America with a properly loaded 30-06. It does it all!!!!

 

[19elkhunter51]

Before I could afford a dedicated rifle for varmints I loaded 110 grain bullets in my
30-06 and was lead into buying a 22-250. When I started to hunt elk I loaded 180 bullets in the same rifle and was never let down. I hunted deer with that same rifle with 150 grain bullets and was pleased with the results. I was able to make all of these loads in my 30-06 shoot sub-moa at a hundred yards.
Over the years as my pocket book and desire allowed, I have purchased "game specific" rifles, 28-06 for deer and antelope and 300 RUM and 338 Edge for elk. I love all of these rifle/cartridge combos in their given use. Would I ever get rid of my 30-06's ?. Not on a bet!!!
I would agree with anyone who would take a one rifle philosophy using a 30-06. Are there other rifle/caliber options? Yes. Do they interest me? Some. Does the current
6.5 mania make any sense? Sure. If you want to shoot steel and deer at 200-300 yards.
I know. Us old guys just don't get it. Maybe. But make no mistake, the 30-06 is still the King of one rifle safes!!

 

[SFC TONYM]

Can't heap enough accolades upon the 06 and it's cousins ".270 Win, 25-06" etc.

The '06 dates back to WW1 days and still commands !!!!

 

[fiftybmg]

When you say that BC does not equate to terminal performance, that tells me that either you don't understand what BC is or means, or that your bias gets in the way of logic, facts and physics. That's EXACTLY what a higher BC bullet does for you. It helps with terminal performance in the aspects of wind drift, bullet speed and residual energy. When hunting, those are the 3 main things you ARE concerned with.

The fact that high BC bullets do everything you say is not disputed.

Terminal performance, in it's non-abstract form, is a term used in the context of ability to make a sure kill quickly when the bullet placement is correct, of which BC alone is not an indicator.

Most of the highest BC bullets in general hunting calibers are made for target shooting, and are sub-optimal for penetration.

My OP is not about me being biased towards any one thing. I felt the need to draw attention to the many opinions that are being spouted as evangelical, that are not based on empirical data.

New things are cool. Flat shooting , low recoil target rifles are great, and if anyone is going to make comparisons, please just quote the numbers, and avoid describing feelings.

As I mentioned previously in this thread, there are a great many calibers with a much greater number of bullet types, weight and construction, and any one of them can be used for some form of hunting.

 

[ofbandg]

I like the 30-06 and have owned several over the years. I also own and use a 30-06 AI. The difference between them is considerable. I get around 3200 fps with a 150 gr Hornady, (out of a 22 inch barrel), and I have never come close to that with the regular '06. At the same time I believe the regular '06 is a better hunting cartridge because it feeds and extracts more reliably. The straight walled cases are better shooters but cases with a bit more taper make better hunters. My kind of hunting is gritty, dirty, and quite often wet so close tolerances are not often the best fit, and this is what '06 style cases were designed for. A lot of modern hunting is focused on shooting and that is where our designs have gone in the past generation. The rifles and cartridges you use should be matched to the style of hunting you enjoy.

 

[gvjm]

Shooters disregard the 30-06 because they hear that a .308 is so close to it as to make no difference, not because of any experience with reloading in general.

The 30-06 has 21% more case capacity of a .308 . That puts it nowhere close. When the manufacturers figures put .308 ballistics close to a 30-06, the pressure of the .308 is running higher than for the 30-06, so it is not an equal comparison. The 30-06 can approach the low end of the .30 magnums with equivalent bullet weights, which a .308 simply cannot.

The design of the 30-06 case lends itself to excellent accuracy potential. The ratio of the neck length to bore size is high for caliber, and exceeds the .30 caliber magnums. This means the bullet can be seated clear of the powder column, which is great for performance and accuracy.

When knocking 30-06 performance capability as "old wives tales" and "myths" of "special powers" , please save the yarn and try get to the numbers. Stick to quoting verifiable numbers.

There is nothing new from cartridges ballistically . A lot of cartridges duplicate each other's ballistics with specific bullet weights. The real innovations have been in bullet manufacture and platform evolution, giving us the long range capability that we have today.

The 30-06 should not be compared to any Creedmoor. Creedmoor calibers were designed with a shorter powder column to reduce recoil for target shooters - specifically to keep the scope on target after the shot. To compensate for the reduced powder capacity, the cartridge was mated to high BC bullets to reduce drop at long distance. This does not equate to terminal performance at long distance.

Taking the centenarian, loading it with the right powder, and mating it to suitable high BC bullets will give very interesting results.

The 30-06 cartridge is just under-rated, it is not inferior.

 

[James Bailey]

I have one or more of most everything out there. It took a long time to get there and costed a lot of money but it's what I like. Not because I needed them and not because they aren't capable of the same things in most cases. One of the few I don't own is a 6.5 CM. It's not because it won't kill a deer, it's because it's not magic as it's been advertised as! I'm not a bench rest competitor and it WON'T kill anything better or farther than the 270, 280, 30-06, or 25-06 that I've owned for over 30 years. I'm not saying it won't kill an animal nor am I saying it doesn't have positive attributes, but what I am saying is that it's most historical breakthrough really is has been the marketing of it and the rifles chambered for it. You can't turn on the Outdoor Channel without seeing some big time elk hunter who has put down the 338 WM he advertised for one company with in favor of a 6.5 CM rifle and ammo company that's sponsoring him now. Yep, he's a professional hunter and obviously a good shot or he couldn't spine that elk at 350 yes and drop him on camera. But they don't show the elk slowing finishing dying while he's paralyzed, nor do they show all the ones that a lesser marksman might take longer to kill and I just don't consider that ethical respect for the game being hunted. Imagine the following the 3006 or 270 or other "old school" cartridges might have if it were new today with the marketing the CM has had. Guys, we're not dumb. If they didn't keep coming out with new calibers, they would be no need to replace rifles that last a lifetime . It's awesome to own lots of guns, but I can do that because I just love em! I don't have believe the all the BS to justify it. And...I can have a 17 rem to shoot mice with, a 460 for elephants, and something else appropriate and ethical to shoot everything in between with that way!

 

[fiftybmg]

I'll chime in on one other aspect. It's fun to hear the close-minded folks bash the 6.5 CM. It's as common as the Vortex scope bashing and just as silly. People win current matches, titles, championships, etc. with the 6.5 CM. There are very few, if anyone, winning today with a 30-06. The same characteristics that make the 6.5 CM a top contender in competition make it a great hunting round for appropriate game at appropriate ranges. And that envelope is larger than most close-minded people think. There is a whole lot done right with the CM: rifles built with appropriate twist and features, high quality widely available factory ammo, low recoil, appropriate action length and great overall ammo and rifle support. We should be applauding companies that do that, not bashing them.

Nothing wrong with a 6.5 CM, or the platforms built for them. Same as there is nothing wrong with any commercial cartridge ever made.

The 30-06 was never made for target shooting. The first 30-06 rifles had pencil barrels, stock design wasn't great, and bullet selection was non-existent.

The Creedmoor cartridges were made for target shooting, as per all the points you mention.

The .22 Long Rifle was also made for something. It can also be used for hunting appropriate game at appropriate ranges.