nightforce, badger, 20moa, & 40 moa

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by dakotasin, Feb 17, 2003.

  1. dakotasin

    dakotasin Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    went to try to get a base for my rifle... was looking for the badger ordnance 20 moa 1-piece base. dealer didn't carry badger, but he did have nightforce. said they were just as good as badger. true?

    second question... he didn't have any 20 moa bases in, either. just 40. he also said that he'd reccomend the 2-piece 40 moa base over the 1-piece 20 moa base for my application.

    guess i just want some experienced opinions here about my mounting options.

    the rifle is a 308 win, and the scope has a 1-inch tube, 1/4 moa clicks. i'm hoping to use the rifle effectively from 300 to 800 yards (for now).

    thanks for any help.

    [ 02-17-2003: Message edited by: dakotasin ]
     
  2. FatBoy...

    FatBoy... Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    284
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    I prefer 1 piece bases. There's less of a chance for misalignment.

    Also,, 40 moa is a butt load. If you're 1" scope has 80 or less MOA internal elevation you may not be able to zero at 100 yards.

    What kind of scope are you using?

    FatBoy...
     
  3. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,410
    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    If the dealer only had 40 moa bases in stock, isn't he likely to tell you that they are "best" just to make a sale? Did he ask what rifle, caliber and load, scope and distance you intend to shoot out to? Most wouldn't because they simply wouldn't have a clue what is involved in setting up for LR.

    The amount of slope you need is dependant on where your rifle zero's within the elevation range of your turret - which means how much elevation is still available above your 100 yard zero, how far you wish to shoot and the trajectory of your bullet. Having a sixty minute elevation range in your scope, and only twenty minutes of elevation left after you have zero'd at 100 yards really limits how far out you can reach. That is why the 20 moa bases are nice. Very unlikely you would need 40 moa with the .308, you should have no problem reaching out to 800 or better. That will be determined by your turrets, more clicks the better. We usually use about 37-38 minutes of elevation from our 100 yard zero out at 1000 yards with BHA 175 Match ammo. Depending on which scope you are using, if your scope zeroes within the bottom half of its elevation range 20 additional moa should be adequate.

    Nightforce does not sell junk. Badgers are the most popular and the "in" LR base, they are used by a lot of military, LE and serious long range hunters. Another superb base is made in Canada, check out www.nearmfg.com
    Nightforce makes both one and two piece bases. One-piece are more money but they eliminate the problem of cockeyed screwholes on top of your Remington's receiver.

    Like Chris, I suggest a one-piece 20moa base and you will be good to go.
     
  4. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,537
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2001
    You might get the one piece Ken Farrell base. It is alot less expensive and are working out nice for alot of guys.

    I hear Bruce Baer makes the NF bases for them. They are real nice, but worth the extra $$, don't know.

    A 20 moa base is all you need like these guys say, and I agree with the part about the 40 moa might screw you up. That would depend on the total travel of the scopes internals. If you have 40-50 moa total vertical available and the scope would normally zero using up 20-30 moa, this is all you can back down by and still be zeroed at 100 yards. So if you slapped on a 40 moa base you could very likely be hitting the target 10-20 moa high, not being able to bring it back down anymore now. This could happen with a 20 moa base if you had alot of vertical adjustment with the normal base to start with, but it usually doesn't happen.
     
  5. 4mesh063

    4mesh063 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    374
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    I have 50MOA built into my bases and then another 20 with the Burris Rings. I'd say 40 would be a good number. That is if you're really serious about the 3-800 yd range. Who would care about a 100 yd zero. I don't ever shoot at stuff at that range anyhow and if I should ever need to print on paper, dial all the way down and shoot at 2 targets on a 2x4 sheet of homosote. Aim at the lower, shoot the higher. It's great practice for rifle cant too. So what if you're still too high, (you most likely won't be). Also, by having the reticle centered at the longer ranges, your sight picture will be most clear there.

    [ 02-17-2003: Message edited by: 4mesh063 ]
     
  6. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,410
    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    You are correct that you don't want to be at the outer range of your adjustments if possible. But we are talking 800 to a 1000 yards and the .308 needs around 40 moa to get there. Unless his scope has very little adjustment, 20 moa should keep him well into the adjustment range at the longer distances. We have no problems shooting out to 1100 with our Badgers and Nears, usually zero about 20 moa or so from the bottom of the adjustment range. Out at 1000-1100 our loads, rifles and skills pretty much give out, even tho we still have lots of clicks in the scopes.
     
  7. dakotasin

    dakotasin Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    when the dealer saw that i wasn't too excited about the 40 moa 1-piece, that is when he made the reccomendation for the 40 moa 2-piece, which he happened to be out of. i think i'll wait until the 20 moa 1-piece gets back in stock.

    as far as my equipment goes... it is on order (i put the order in on friday), and i actually don't have any of it on hand... the rifle and scope should arrive sometime around the 25th of this month. so, i can't tell you how many clicks i really have on my scope.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Dakotasin--
    Your dealer is definitely mixed up on the NF bases. The two piece is a 20 MOA set and the one piece is good for 40 MOA. That is the way they are built--there isn't a 40 MOA two-piece set. They shouldn't run you more than $70, either. If he is asking more, you are being duped...Bruce Baer designed the two piece set years ago and sold the patent to LightForce USA. Link-- http://www.nightforceoptics.com/ms.html
    I have 5 sets of these, and they are good bases, but not any better than the Farrell units, at twice the price. Do yourself a favor and check out the Ken Farrell bases, there are two piece and one piece, both in 20 MOA.

    [ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: Chris Jamison ]
     
  9. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

    Messages:
    1,459
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Dakotasin. Start by shooting your rifle and scope first. Find out where your 100yd zero is and the amount of scope adjustment left. You may find that there is enough without fiddling with expensive bases and rings.

    I have three rifles where the receiver and base combo allows the scopes to zero near the bottom of their elevation adjustment. No need for additional stuff there.

    As an excellent fix, consider the Burris Sig. rings with inserts. You can adjust and shim your scope using these inserts and should be able to be you set up for 1/3 the cost of your route.

    Also, these inserts guarantee that any slight misalignment in your bases are adsorbed by the rings. Being made from steel, they are every bit as durable as "tactical" rings.

    Most 1" scopes have 50 to 60 min of adjustment. You will need around 35 to 40 min. to get to 1000yds, so really don't need to shim that much.

    For bullets, I would suggest you give the 155gr AMax a try. They shoot flatter in my rifle then any other 168/165 gr HP match bullet I have tried. You get a 150fps more muzzle vel and they stay very stable when the go subsonic. Took my 308 to 1500yds and no problems with this bullet. Pretty fragile too.

    If you haven't bought a scope yet, consider the Bushnell Elite 10X. Lots of adjustment, great mildot reticle and decent optics. For less then $200, you can have a very usuable scope for your shooting. You will have to decide if 10X is enough. They are clear enough for me to take out clay pigeons at over 500yds.

    Get the real expensive stuff if you find the need later. Practise and shooting is much more fun.

    Jerry

    Jerry
     
  10. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,410
    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    As always Jerry's advice is excellent and aimed at keeping the entry costs reasonable.

    Only point I would dispute is that steel rings are as good as tacticals, just not so but the difference is mainly determined if you drop your rifle out of a chopper or drive over it with a Hummer [​IMG] The military used standard Redfield style mounts in Vietnam and had so many problems that they switched to Weaver style - they are much stronger.

    I fell on a rifle once, actually bent over the dovetail of a Leupold ring and that would not have happened with a tactical ring. Otherwise the big advantage is that they look "cool". They are overpriced and the Farrell base looks like a very good option. He has a website, just search for Ken Farrel scope rings. Since most of us do not abuse our rigs the tactical mounts are overkill, but nice.

    I am going to have to shoot with Jerry and show him the benefits of Badgers, Mk4's, Nears, GGG, DD Ross, Nightforce whatever - you just drop the rings into the slots and torque them, great interchangability and repeatability.

    Your original question is about 20 and 40 moa sloped bases wasn't it. Jerry has a point, if your scope will get you to 800-1000 with standard mounts use the money you save to buy ammo - unless you really want the cool-looking stuff.
     
  11. dakotasin

    dakotasin Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    thanks for the input, i appreciate it much! i will certainly check into the ken farrell bases.

    the scope choice is something i agonized over forever. all my other rifles have leupolds, so of course i wanted another one. however, i went back to school, and i do not have the means for the rifle and the leupold... so, i checked into 'lesser' options, and found the bushnell 10x w/ mildots for $156 online...ultimately, i went w/ a swift 6.5-24 w/ the hopes of upgrading when i can outshoot the scope... we'll see if/when that happens.

    i'm not overly concerned w/ ammo costs as i have a ton of stuff in my reloading area, and it will take me the entire year to shoot it all up...

    i checked into leupold mark iv's and nightforce rings, but they are just too cost prohibitive, so i went w/ warne. anyway, i appreciate all the information.
     
  12. Dimitrios

    Dimitrios Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    I got 2 25 moa bases from Richard Near.
    When i got the first i asked for the 40moa to put on my.308(i like to start at the bottom of the travel)
    My scope was a LUPY 1 inch tube.I could not zero at 100yards i needed about 4 to 7 moa(don't remember)so i exchanged it for the 25moa.
    The other base has a LUPY LR on it and i have 124 clicks from bottom,i am thinking of getting the 40moa for it...in the future.
    BTW Richard is a very good guy to deal with and has a very good product.