Need opinion/advice...fast

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by sniperVLS, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

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    check picture and read Please...

    so I pick up the VLS in .308 today. I took pictures(ofcourse) and happened to take one from the front. I see something I didnt notice before, so I grab my mini mag and sure enough, I see brown marks at the muzzle end, only about 1/4" in length, and they just stop. You can see from the pic that they dont travel up the barrel.

    I dont remember seeing this before in rifles I had, but to be honest, I cant say I ever checked them or looked for such a marking.

    what could have caused this and should I return it or wont it matter? The rifling itself looks great, its just those patterns of brown marks. It rubbed at it with a cotton swab and its clean, nothing came off.

    I wont be shooting it until this weekend sometime. Im wondering if I should even bother incase it voids the return policy.

    any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks...

    [​IMG]

    after further thought, I think it might be copper fouling. I guess ill get some hoppes bench in there and try and remove it.
     
  2. winmagman

    winmagman Well-Known Member

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    sniper
    Can't be sure but it looks like copper wash/fouling. Try a swab with copper solvent or amonia on it, if you get a blue color it's copper. A serious cleaning should get it out.
    Chris

    P.S. If you use amonia be sure and clean it out afterwards.
     
  3. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    It is copper fouling and will need something stronger than Hoppe's- more like Sweet's or CR-10 and maybe a good scrubbing with JB.
     
  4. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

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    well after using some shooters choice and JB, it came out. it was slow going but im sure my patience will show at the range. Thanks again for the advice fellas. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  5. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

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    hmm....

    cleaning her real good but that copper fouling is at the same spot, and only there again. Its coming out a lot easier than it did 2 days ago, but is this normal?

    I shot about 25 rounds today, cleaning every 5 or 6 rounds. Not a great cleaning mind you, a quick patch with shooters choice then a bore snake run thru. I thought this would prevent the fouling at the muzzle.

    will this always happen?
    My other Rem rifles did NOT do this. But this is by far the most accurate Ive ever owned. Id pay triple what I paid and Id still be in heaven with this accuracy!
     
  6. winmagman

    winmagman Well-Known Member

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    sniper
    Fouling to some degree is a fact of shooting. Custom barrels as a rule foul less than factory barrels, they're generally just smoother. Bullets also play a role some are known to cause more fouling than others.

    Also cleaning every 5-6 shots may be more than nessecary, you should be able to shoot longer than that with no noticable accuracy loss. The rifle will tell you when it needs cleaning.
    Chris
     
  7. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    sniper
    Fouling to some degree is a fact of shooting. Custom barrels as a rule foul less than factory barrels, they're generally just smoother. Bullets also play a role some are known to cause more fouling than others.

    Also cleaning every 5-6 shots may be more than nessecary, you should be able to shoot longer than that with no noticable accuracy loss. The rifle will tell you when it needs cleaning.
    Chris

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Chris,

    thanks for the quick response. Honestly, I cleaned 3 or 4 times, and shot 9 straight, and if anything, it got better, not worse. I was just trying to keep it somewhat clean so the copper wouldnt set in, but I guess it didnt help much. It set in alright.

    Im using shooters choice, hoppes bench rest and JB. Is there anything else I should be doing. It came out in an hour instead of 4 this time.

    I used to shoot 100 at a time with my rem 700 mountain rifle and its accuracy didnt flounder at all. I just never saw copper at the muzzle b4 so this is new to me. Sorry for all the questions. I just dont want to be spending a lot of time cleaning this everytime I shoot. Im headed out again tomorrow morning and doing this in 24 hours doesnt sound like fun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  8. winmagman

    winmagman Well-Known Member

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    sniper
    Different guys like different products for getting copper out. If you do a search here you'll find some great discussions on the topic. Cleaning product review Here's one I found helpful.
    Chris
     
  9. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Chris, Im going to get some of those and try them.

    -Aaron-
     
  10. Wind Dancer

    Wind Dancer Active Member

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    All of the amonia based copper removers, and JB work fine, but they can take hours every time you clean a rough bore. I recently used a foaming copper cleaner and everything came out....with one patch....read that again....one patch! Spray it in, let it set for about 20 minutes, wipe it out. Couldn't believe it. Best part is its non toxic. Unfortunatley the brand I used was from Forrest Professional out of Finland. I just bought a similar product made by Outers (Walmart) but haven't tried it yet, so I don't know if it's as good. I got the original stuff from First Stop Gun in Rapid City, SD., but I got it several years ago, and just now tried it. (Yes, stupid on my part) I have no idea if the Forrest Professional stuff is still available anywhere, but I am hoping the Outers works as well. The Outers product is called Foaming Bore Cleaner. The can is about 5" tall with a black cap..shouldn't have any trouble finding it at your local Walmart. I have firelapped all my barrels now, and that has greatly reduced my copper fowling. But although I have had great luck with the process every time I have done it, others report some problems; so, I am reluctant to recommend it. If you ever want to firelap, I used the NECO kit from Brownells..but FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS carefully, especially the part about wiping off the excess grit. If you fail to do that, you are going to wear away some throat. Good Luck.
     
  11. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Greg.

    Im headed to walmart tomorrow to pick up some winchester .40 rounds for my Sig, mind as well look for the foam. Thanks for the info...the more replies the better!

    -Aaron-
     
  12. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    Try some 000steel wool in a slotted tip about until you get tired up and down the barrel.This is the first thing I do when I get new gun/barrel it will help your fouling or rather cleaning time.
     
  13. preacherman

    preacherman Well-Known Member

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    ....sweets = 15-20 min soak, then patch; Butch's Bore Shine = 10-15 min soak, then patch; mixture of kroil & JB paste (1 stroke per round fired); foam "wipe out" = best for overnight soak, then patch... all good copper removers... hope this helps...
     
  14. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

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    The cleanings have worked. Cleaning it yesterday after I got home from the range was the quickest yet. Theres still some copper in there but it hasnt hindered performance, not to me it hasnt.

    100 yards and using the same Off the shelf Fed and Rem ammo as last week...I couldnt be happier. Ive decided against doing any bedding/free floating, thats unless it goes out of whack some day, but its just shooting too nice right now. I'd ruin it anyways /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

    The club I'm joining has a 600 yarder to practice on, one of the very few that offer it, and its not far away. Ive become spoiled with anything out to 300 yards, so 600 will be a treat for me, and quite a challenge Im sure.

    25 rounds fired on this target....

    [​IMG]