Neck sizing and turning order (stupid question)

[Deleted member 107666]

First time reloader, getting ready to start case prep. Shooting for .002 neck tension. Still need to measure a dummy round and get my bushing ordered (using redding type s).

Quick dumb question...if I also plan to turn the necks very minimally, what's the proper order to do that in...and I'm confused between a .30 cal expander mandrel and just the .30 cal neck turning pilot.

Is the expander required to push out the imperfections? And if so, would the proper order be to first run through the expander mandrel, then turn necks, then run through either the full length or neck sizing die to set neck tension?

Or do full length resize first, then just use the .30 cal pilot mandrel to turn, then neck size again?

Thanks in advance for humoring me.

 

[Rick Richard]

First time reloader, getting ready to start case prep. Shooting for .002 neck tension. Still need to measure a dummy round and get my bushing ordered (using redding type s).

Quick dumb question...if I also plan to turn the necks very minimally, what's the proper order to do that in...and I'm confused between a .30 cal expander mandrel and just the .30 cal neck turning pilot.

Is the expander required to push out the imperfections? And if so, would the proper order be to first run through the expander mandrel, then turn necks, then fun through the sizing die to set neck tension?

Or do reside first, then just use the .30 cal pilot r mandrel, turn, then neck size again?

Thanks in advance for humoring me.

 

[Deviant]

First time reloader, getting ready to start case prep. Shooting for .002 neck tension. Still need to measure a dummy round and get my bushing ordered (using redding type s).

Quick dumb question...if I also plan to turn the necks very minimally, what's the proper order to do that in...and I'm confused between a .30 cal expander mandrel and just the .30 cal neck turning pilot.

Is the expander required to push out the imperfections? And if so, would the proper order be to first run through the expander mandrel, then turn necks, then fun through the sizing die to set neck tension?

Or do reside first, then just use the .30 cal pilot r mandrel, turn, then neck size again?

Thanks in advance for humoring me.

I full length size first, trim to length, chamfer and debur the case mouth then use the neck turning mandrel to expand the necks because it is smaller in diameter than the neck sizing mandrel and your case necks will not be so loose on the neck turning tool. I then turn the necks and expand with the proper expanding mandrel to give me .002 neck tension.

 

[Deleted member 107666]

Thanks. Although I'd like to set neck tension with the redding bushing dies. If that's the case, would I need the expander iron (k&m) to first expand the necks to push out the imperfections, and then neck turn and then neck size? Or could I get by with the neck turning pilot only to turn, I'm inside of that will push out the imperfections or not? They're both labeled 30 cal, so I'm having a tough time figuring out the dif.

Assuming maybe that expander iron is to neck up from say 6mm to. 30 cal?

Do I have that order correct...expand, turn, size? Or can I cut out the expand and just use the K&M neck turning pilot, then size?

 

[Deviant]

You should have 2 expander mandrels for your mandrel die. The neck turning mandrels are slightly smaller and you use it before you turn the case necks so you get a good fit with the neck turning tool. Then you use the caliber specific expander mandrel to size the neck for propper tension. Mandrel dies are better for sizing because they push all case neck imperfections to the outside of the neck so they don't contact the bullet and you also get less run out.

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

try to quit thinking of em both at thirty cal

the expander button in your die is probably in the .302ish range or whatever ( all die mfgs have an idea what will cover every scenario of brass ) ..

but the pilot for your neck turning lathe is different diameter .. usual the brass right out of the sizing dies wont fit over the pilot for the neck turner . so you need the expander mandrel that matches (maybe+.001) the pilot of your turning lathe tool , so when turning, it turns tight but smoothly over the pilot without any friction .once brass has all been turned then you use bushing die to size the neck down 2to3 thou less than bullet diameter .. this is when you find out what bushing you really needed .. depends on how much you took off the diameter of the neck

some people add a step here run a 306 diameter expander mandrel.
which'll give the 2 thou less when seating the 308 bullet

good news is you only need to go through this once

and you are gonna be amazed at how evenly and consistent the bullets seat after this ..

 

[Deleted member 107666]

It's starting to click...thanks.

Do I have this right...for steps
1. Expander mandrel (.307, allows .001 springback to fit the .306 neck turn pilot
2. Neck turn
3. Full length (or neck only) size brass with bushing for .002 neck tension - expander ball removed
4. Just to be sure, use expander mandrel specifically sized to expand for .002 overall neck tension

Then trim to length and, chamfer and debur...

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

trim case to length so the stop on the pilot makes the case stop all at the same point. close to the shoulder corner

on #1 .. cant say for sure of your measurements.. but you need an expander that after spring back leaves about 1 thou of clearance.. the pilot is piloting the brass .. your brass should slide over the turnier pilot easily.. and not be able to wobble at the case head ( or its too loose )

i dont do number 4. i just bush down to 3 less the bullet diameter ...

you may want to anneal somewhere during the process

 

[elf]

Some good tips here. Just wanna add - trimming to same OAL is important so that your trimmer stop is at same point each time. Set trimmer stop so that the cut ends exactly at the neck-shoulder junction. If you know the diameter of your chamber, keep a loaded round .002 - .003" below that (test first with a dummy round). Prepare to have a few throw away brass, cause you will most likely make some errors. Go to youtube and watch video first. Good luck.

 

[Deviant]

You should chamfer and debur as well as trim to length before you turn the necks.
1. FL size
2. Chamfer, debur, trim to length
3. Neck turn mandrel
4. Turn necks
5. Expander mandrel or resize with bushing.
I anneal my brass after every firing before any resizing is done.

 

[J E Custom]

I prefer to Trim new brass before it has been fired, then use a expander mandrel to size the neck for the turning mandrel. I turn the case at this point and This is done to prevent the unevenness in the neck wall before firing and off setting the neck. At this point I neck or full size the case for loading.
This way when the case is fired, it will be true and concentric because the chamber has uniformed everything.

Once this is done I find that my cases are very concentric. Once fired, I check for concentricity and if none (It is usually perfect) I start my accuracy loading and check each load for any run out. (This is how I check the quality of my loading process.

Note: If I use bushing dies, I remove the expander in the dies because they negate the function of the bushing by changing the sizing of the bushing and also work the brass twice instead of once.

Just the way I do it

J E CUSTOM

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

one more recommendation .. use some not so good brass first so you can see how uneven some brass is ..

 

[Mikecr]

It's starting to click...thanks.

Do I have this right...for steps
1. Expander mandrel (.307, allows .001 springback to fit the .306 neck turn pilot
2. Neck turn
3. Full length (or neck only) size brass with bushing for .002 neck tension - expander ball removed
4. Just to be sure, use expander mandrel specifically sized to expand for .002 overall neck tension

Then trim to length and, chamfer and debur...

This is correct. You don't have to trim prior to turning. You don't have to trim until your case mouths are within the chamber end clearance desired. This could be 10 or more reload cycles down the road. You control the turn length by hand easy enough. Just touch the neck-shoulder junction a rational bit, with a close cutter angle to shoulder angle, to remove donut thickness (under 1thou).
Never FL size necks prior to turning,, don't fire cases first,, just turn em as new out of the bag.

 

[Deviant]

This is correct. You don't have to trim prior to turning. You don't have to trim until your case mouths are within the chamber end clearance desired. This could be 10 or more reload cycles down the road. You control the turn length by hand easy enough. Just touch the neck-shoulder junction a rational bit, with a close cutter angle to shoulder angle, to remove donut thickness (under 1thou).
Never FL size necks prior to turning,, don't fire cases first,, just turn em as new out of the bag.

Its much easier to trim all of your brass to the same length first so you dont have to guess on how far to turn. After trimming you just set your depth and go and they will all be consistent. If you dont FL size before doing this your shoulders may be vastly different in length (on new brass)which will affect your individual case lengths and make your trimming results inconsistent. Im not sure what is meant by FL sizing of the neck but if you have the neck turning mandrel you will need to make sure the bushing you use first shrinks the neck enough that it is slightly smaller than the mandrel size to allow it to work properly. Then after neck turning you can use either the propper expander mandrel or bushing to size the neck for proper tension. Then after you fire form your brass you will have nice concentric cases and you can measure them but likely will not need to trim them for a few firings although I do trim mine all to a consistent length every time because I am anal and my trimmer also chamfers and deburs the case mouths at the same time. There are a lot of ways to do this and Im not saying mine is perfect my resulting groups and consistency have been great doing it this way.