Moa or mill ?

[crazymonkey]

Getting down to the last few things for my 280ai build . It's already at Axis Works and should be done in a few weeks. I'm down to dies and scope ,mounts,level.
Primary use is hunting with an occasional range trip .
Specs as follows
Kelby nanook
Proof sendero light 1:8.4 26 inch
Trigger tech diamond
Manners lrh
I've never shot mill always moa
I really like the nightforce moar and have a atacr,and two shv, not counting some ziess and leupold.
You can't beat nightforce for durability but there heavy .
I've been leaning towards either a zco 420 or tangent 315m the tangent would be the best by weight .
The big one is do I stay moa or go mill ? AGAIN I've never shot mill and have a very limited knowledge of mill scopes . Everyone is always saying that they are much simpler and most alpha glass is mill.
I don't want to buy a moa scope and not be happy with it or vise versa and get mill and not understand what I'm doing.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I grew up on MOA, I currently have both. If I had a preference it would be MIL. I'm actually working to replace all my scopes with MIL. In my opinion, they're just easier to compute. Especially under stress. What turned me onto mils was PRS shooting, and it just trickled down to the rest of my shooting.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Good choice.on gunsmiths. I have 15 of their builds now.

Both the ZCO 420 and TT315M come in an MOA version. ZCO isn't much (if any) lighter than a NF @ 37oz. The TT315M is 28oz. Over half a pound lighter.

Here is my question/suggestion. What do most of your shooting/hunting buddies run? I run MIL exclusively. My beother ran MOA up until his last two scopes. I would call misses for him in MOA, but he would do the same for me, so I would have try and donthe math real quick. He has since gone to MIL, and it is much easier to shoot together.

There is nothing wrong with MOA if you are used to it. Just another unit of measure.

I started my younger daughter at 8yo with MIL. I would tell her "dial to number 3, then 3 more clicks." (3.3MIL).

My older daughter started in MOA. I would do the same. "Dial to 12, then 2 more clicks". (12.5MOA)

 

[crazymonkey]

Good choice.on gunsmiths. I have 15 of their builds now.

Both the ZCO 420 and TT315M come in an MOA version. ZCO isn't much (if any) lighter than a NF @ 37oz. The TT315M is 28oz. Over half a pound lighter.

Here is my question/suggestion. What do most of your shooting/hunting buddies run? I run MIL exclusively. My beother ran MOA up until his last two scopes. I would call misses for him in MOA, but he would do the same for me, so I would have try and donthe math real quick. He has since gone to MIL, and it is much easier to shoot together.

There is nothing wrong with MOA if you are used to it. Just another unit of measure.

I started my younger daughter at 8yo with MIL. I would tell her "dial to number 3, then 3 more clicks." (3.3MIL).

My older daughter started in MOA. I would do the same. "Dial to 12, then 2 more clicks". (12.5MOA)

It's been awhile getting all the parts together. I do appreciate you letting me check out your guns last summer . I had the fast 7_08 . I'm still working up temp stable loads with it . It really slowed down when it got cold. My buddy I hunt with has a little of each mill and moa but probably won't dial up to shoot . Everyone else is strictly moa . I might need you to give me some pointers on how to add some blue to my stock when it's done. I didn't like the idea of purple in the blue manners stock color
.

 

[lancetkenyon]

It's been awhile getting all the parts together. I do appreciate you letting me check out your guns last summer . I had the fast 7_08 . I'm still working up temp stable loads with it . It really slowed down when it got cold. My buddy I hunt with has a little of each mill and moa but probably won't dial up to shoot . Everyone else is strictly moa . I might need you to give me some pointers on how to add some blue to my stock when it's done. I didn't like the idea of purple in the blue manners stock color
.

Easy. I can give you a tutorial. I even have some blue left from a "Tac Americana" clone I did.

 

[crazymonkey]

Easy. I can give you a tutorial. I even have some blue left from a "Tac Americana" clone I did.
View attachment 530842

Thank you it should be a few weeks while Eric and the team at axis works do there magic.

 

[Mark37082]

Getting down to the last few things for my 280ai build . It's already at Axis Works and should be done in a few weeks. I'm down to dies and scope ,mounts,level.
Primary use is hunting with an occasional range trip .
Specs as follows
Kelby nanook
Proof sendero light 1:8.4 26 inch
Trigger tech diamond
Manners lrh
I've never shot mill always moa
I really like the nightforce moar and have a atacr,and two shv, not counting some ziess and leupold.
You can't beat nightforce for durability but there heavy .
I've been leaning towards either a zco 420 or tangent 315m the tangent would be the best by weight .
The big one is do I stay moa or go mill ? AGAIN I've never shot mill and have a very limited knowledge of mill scopes . Everyone is always saying that they are much simpler and most alpha glass is mill.
I don't want to buy a moa scope and not be happy with it or vise versa and get mill and not understand what I'm doing.

First of all this sounds and looks like a sweet build. I've always used MOA, and at this stage in my life I don't see the need to change. The TT315 is on my "one day" list. I am a little concerned about their recommended torque values on the rings. I believe they are 15 in/#'s. Going with doubling up your rings will not work with integrated split rails. The NF NX8 weight is very close to the TT's. Even though many of top rifle scopes are heavy, I just can't get myself to consider a scope over 30 ounces on a hunting rig.

 

[Barrelnut]

I shoot MOA because I do most of my longrange practice shooting rocks and bolders across canyons. I pick rocks at varing distances and range them with a rangefinder. Then I use the MOA reticle to measure the rock. If the rock is 600 yards away and measures 1 MOA with the reticle, I know it'a about a 6 inch rock and a worthy target. Also, it's easier to measure a group on a rock face with the MOA reticle. If it's a 1/2 MOA group at 600 yards, I'm doing darn good that day.
If I was competing in PRS, would probably use MIL because it's easier to convey verbally with a spotter and a tad easier to dial too. Otherwise, probably doesn't matter.

 

[Plinker147]

If I guy was starting from scratch, I think it would be wise to go with the mill system. But since you're already invested in MOA with todays Range finders and ballistic apps, kind of negates that advantage of MILS Being faster and easily calculated in your head.

 

[Mikecr]

Easiest is laser ranging, and dialing.
Highest resolution is inches per hundred yards (IPHY), then MOA, then MIL.

It's hard for me to understand why anyone shooting at distance today would not be laser ranging, or have anything to calculate in the field..

 

[FireFlyFishing]

So, Mils and MOA are the same thing as they are both an angular measuring system. Where they differ is somewhat like looking at a tape measure that has inches vs. centimeters…kinda. I like MOA as I can look down range and judge 100 yards pretty well as I've been doing it all my life. Plus, 1 MOA at 100 yards is darn near 1 inch. These figures work in my American brain. I would have to work at 100 meter judging for a while to get the hang of that range visually. The plus side of mils is the units of ten.
The gents that have shot many long range rounds for Uncle Sam will point you To mils every time…because that's what they trained on and used. If you're comfortable with MOA…I'd say stick to it. However, if you're up for a challenge, I'm guessing a few weeks behind a mil scope, and you'd probably pick it up.

 

[crazymonkey]

First of all this sounds and looks like a sweet build. I've always used MOA, and at this stage in my life I don't see the need to change. The TT315 is on my "one day" list. I am a little concerned about their recommended torque values on the rings. I believe they are 15 in/#'s. Going with doubling up your rings will not work with integrated split rails. The NF NX8 weight is very close to the TT's. Even though many of top rifle scopes are heavy, I just can't get myself to consider a scope over 30 ounces on a hunting rig.

Thanks . A little back and forth with Lance at the start and alot of time with Eric at Axis Works and my build went from a basic rem 700 action to one of the best guns I'll have in the safe .

 

[lancetkenyon]

So, Mils and MOA are the same thing as they are both an angular measuring system. Where they differ is somewhat like looking at a tape measure that has inches vs. centimeters…kinda. I like MOA as I can look down range and judge 100 yards pretty well as I've been doing it all my life. Plus, 1 MOA at 100 yards is darn near 1 inch. These figures work in my American brain. I would have to work at 100 meter judging for a while to get the hang of that range visually. The plus side of mils is the units of ten.
The gents that have shot many long range rounds for Uncle Sam will point you To mils every time…because that's what they trained on and used. If you're comfortable with MOA…I'd say stick to it. However, if you're up for a challenge, I'm guessing a few weeks behind a mil scope, and you'd probably pick it up.

4 clicks @ 1/4 MOA is 1.047" @ 100 yds.
3 clicks @ .1MIL is 1.08" @ 100 yds.

I can't hold the difference of .033" @ 100 yds. Or .33" @ 1K yds. Or see it with my rifles/ammo.

Trust me, I wish I could.

 

[lancetkenyon]

First of all this sounds and looks like a sweet build. I've always used MOA, and at this stage in my life I don't see the need to change. The TT315 is on my "one day" list. I am a little concerned about their recommended torque values on the rings. I believe they are 15 in/#'s. Going with doubling up your rings will not work with integrated split rails. The NF NX8 weight is very close to the TT's. Even though many of top rifle scopes are heavy, I just can't get myself to consider a scope over 30 ounces on a hunting rig.

I run 18in/lbs on my TT315s with Seekins rings. I have not had an issue yet. From 6CM to 28 Nosler.
I also run 50in/lbs in my ARC M-brace rings, again, with no issues.

And please don't compare a NF NX8 to a TT315M....ever....EVER....for any reason!