Measuring Hodgdon's Triple Seven Powder Question?

[TRR]

I'm more familiar with T/C breech plugs, so I give that example.

The flash channel, the large opening under where the primer goes, is 1/8". The flash hole, the small hole, is about .029" some are slightly larger and they will vary.

Someone with a CVA provide that data for him.

I had and have no clue what the 1/2" to 3/4" information you provided. I'm still stumped.

The original Breech plug flash hole measures about .029
The Blackhorn Breech plug flash hole measures .310 Diameter
Sorry my 1/2" - 3/4" was a little over exaggerated! That's why you were stumped!

 

[ENCORE]

The original Breech plug flash hole measures about .029
The Blackhorn Breech plug flash hole measures .310 Diameter
Sorry my 1/2" - 3/4" was a little over exaggerated! That's why you were stumped!

Another correction Not .310" but .031" right?

 

[TRR]

Another correction Not .310" but .031" right?

No correction there! .310
that's why I thought it was 1/2" or so.
I worked several years as a machinist.

 

[ENCORE]

No correction there! .310
that's why I thought it was 1/2" or so.
I worked several years as a machinist.

You must be talking FLASH CHANNEL and not flash hole.

 

[TRR]

You must be talking FLASH CHANNEL and not flash hole.

Exactly, flash channel.
Measuring the chamber end.

 

[ATH]

Grains by volume and weight are two totally different things. With blackpowder MLs, ALWAYS USE VOLUME MEASUREMENT! The only time you should be weighing is with smokeless powder in a smokeless rated gun.

I've consistently killed deer to 300 yards and change with a conventional ML, using 777 measured by volume. Volume measurement is plenty consistent if you do it the same way every time.

 

[trebark]

Grains by volume and weight are two totally different things. With blackpowder MLs, ALWAYS USE VOLUME MEASUREMENT! The only time you should be weighing is with smokeless powder in a smokeless rated gun.

I've consistently killed deer to 300 yards and change with a conventional ML, using 777 measured by volume. Volume measurement is plenty consistent if you do it the same way every time.

Would you please share you load data sir. I've chrono'd my smokepole shooting three pellets of WhiteHots under a 245grain bullet lit by a Remington Kleanbore primer out of a 28" barrel. It did not provide sufficient velocity to reliably kill deer at 200 yards.

 

[Deleted member 56284]

The primary difference between the breech plugs is that the standard plugs are designed for pellets and are flat with a small lip on the outer edge. The pellets have the hole down the middle to assist with ignition as the flash moves up that hole as it spreads outward.

The Blackhorn breech are designed for loose powder. The face is dished so that the powder is funneled right to the flash hole to assist with ignition. It will provide a more consistent, uniform and reliable ignition (especially in colder temps).

If you go to website for Blackhorn they have a load chart and at the top of the chart is a conversion table (a multiplication factor) for converting Weight by Volume to Weight by actual weight in grains. I use it but prefer you look it up for self. I use my RCBS electronic dispenser/scale to drop charges of 209. That is one of the great things about Blackhorn is that you can safely and accurately run it through a dispenser. There is a lot to like about Blackhorn as a blackpowder substitute. I shoot mostly smokeless but the black powder guns I do have I shoot Blackhorn 209 exclusively.

 

[FrontierGander]

 

[Deleted member 56284]

Thanks for then pic as it illustrates the difference exactly. I own two CVA's and had to buy the Blackhorn breech plugs for both of them. The original plugs would not ignite 209 consistently, especially in cooler temps. Muzzle velocity and accuracy where all over the place. Once I switched to the 209 plugs and began shooting 209 exclusively both guns preformed better than they ever had and at times did so with bullet/sabot combos I had previously declared as no go's/no good.

 

[trebark]

Interesting. That is a sufficiently large enough hole to allow powder down it. Can you post a pic that shows the actual flash hole?

 

[FrontierGander]

the flash hole on a western powders blackhorn209 breech plug is .029"

 

[ATH]

Would you please share you load data sir. I've chrono'd my smokepole shooting three pellets of WhiteHots under a 245grain bullet lit by a Remington Kleanbore primer out of a 28" barrel. It did not provide sufficient velocity to reliably kill deer at 200 yards.

Velocity does not kill deer. Energy and bullet performance kills deer. I can't tell you what your problem is unless I know what bullet you were shooting, and where you hit the deer. Deer that were not "reliably killed" are typically either not recovered -- therefore we can debate forever what the reason is, but it is typically shooter error -- or a bullet that is driven faster than its performance envelope and comes apart.

So you've chrono'd your 3 pellet load and 245 grain bullet. What was your velocity? What was the bullet? If Powerbelt, there is your problem. Fragmenting bullets.

I've killed deer reliably with 85gr of Pyrodex under a 240gr HTP (yeah the pre-XTP days) at 200 yards. I doubt sufficient muzzle velocity was your issue. Deer hit in the heart/lungs die quickly with a minimum 44cal hole punched through them.

 

[trebark]

Velocity does not kill deer. Energy and bullet performance kills deer. I can't tell you what your problem is unless I know what bullet you were shooting, and where you hit the deer. Deer that were not "reliably killed" are typically either not recovered -- therefore we can debate forever what the reason is, but it is typically shooter error -- or a bullet that is driven faster than its performance envelope and comes apart.

So you've chrono'd your 3 pellet load and 245 grain bullet. What was your velocity? What was the bullet? If Powerbelt, there is your problem. Fragmenting bullets.

I've killed deer reliably with 85gr of Pyrodex under a 240gr HTP (yeah the pre-XTP days) at 200 yards. I doubt sufficient muzzle velocity was your issue. Deer hit in the heart/lungs die quickly with a minimum 44cal hole punched through them.

You were asked a simple question and you provided a nasty attitude response. That's not what this forum is about. It's about the friendly exchange of information so that we can learn from one another. Quit being a jerk.