Looking to learn some more please.

[PowellSixO]

How's it going guys? I've been reloading for a couple of years now, and have a pretty decent program going on. I have the basics down and maybe a little more. I'm always wanting to learn more, and I was hoping you guys could teach me some more.
My entire reloading process is below:
-I like winchester and remington brass, and I usually start by buying factory ammo that has the brass I'm after.
-I go plink the factory ammo to get my once fired brass.
-I run the once fired brass through my vibratory brass cleaner with just walnut shell media (no polish), for about an hour.
-I remove the brass and inspect it for any obvious issues.
-I spray the brass with One Shot case lube (outside of case, and a little on the inside of the case neck).
-I set my full length sizing die up, with one piece of once fired brass. I keep pushing the shoulder back until I get no resistence when chambering the case in my rifle.
-Once the die is set, I resize all of my brass and deprime the brass at the same time.
-I then once again inspect the brass for any signs of issues.
-I then trim the brass to the minimum brass length.
-I chamfer and deburr the brass. I also clean the primer pocket at this time.
-I then put the brass back in the walnut media, and add a little brass polish, and clean the brass for a few hours. Or until it's to my satisfaction.
-I remove the brass and clean all of the media from the brass with compressed air. Taking special care to make sure the flash holes are all clear.
-I then prime the brass.
-I measure my powder on an electronic scale.
-I then weigh the powder on my mechanical scale.
-I then add the powder to the case.
-I then press the bullet in with my RCBS Competition Bullet Seating tool.
-I check every other cartridge with my bullet comparator tool, to make sure they are all being seated to the same depth.


Now there are a few other things I need to address, that are also part of my reloading process.

Determining COAL (I measure from the base of the case to the Ogive with my bullet comparator):
-I take a once fired piece of brass, and clean the inside of the neck with a brush.
-I place a bullet into the case and make sure that it moves fairly freely (If it does not, I keep cleaning the inside of the neck until it does).
-I then pull the bullet out of the case a little, to the point that I know it will touch the lands of the barrel when chambered.
-I chamber the round and open and close the bolt a few times.
-I remove the round and measure the COAL.
-I do this 10 times, and then take the average of my measurements.
-This is my COAL.
-I then load a dummy round (A resized, trimmed, deburred, dechamfered, cleaned and ready to go piece of brass, used primer, no powder, and bullet), to the exact length of the COAL cartridge.
-I mark this dummy round with a permanent marker with the measurements written on it.
-This will now be my go to round for comparing all my other rounds to in the future.

Determining Powder charge:
-Once I have my bullet and powder picked, I find my min and max loads on loaddata.com.
-I start at the minimum load and make 3 rounds at that weight, I then step up .3 grains and make 3 more loads at that weight, and so on and so on until I reach a little over the max load.
-I load the rounds with the bullets .020" off the lands (this is what I've found to be a good starting point for the Berger VLD's).
-I take these to the range and fire 1 bullet every 4-5 minutes (allowing time for the barrel to cool between shots),and see how each load groups at 100 yards.
-I pick my best two loads, and then load up 15 of each with different seating depths.
-I then go back to the range and fire 3 round groups to see which seating depth groups best.
-I take my best group load, and then reload a box of 20.
-I then go back to the range to see how it performs out to 500 yards.
-If it will hold a similar moa at 500 yards that I got at 100 yards, I call it good.

Now for the questions:
1. Is there anything with my process that is wrong, or that could be improved?
2. What measurements and tools do I need to properly monitor my brass? (Right now I don't know exactly what I need to measure, and where I need to measure to monitor my brass. I usually just use it until it fails. I'd like to be able to monitor the brass so that I know it's not any good, and that I should get rid of it before it fails.)
3.Any tricks for making brass last longer? (I'm currently getting about 6-7 reloads out of my 7mm before the brass fails. And I have not reloaded my .243 enough to get to the point of brass failure yet.)
4. Any other tips, tricks, pointers, or anything else you guys can think of that might help me out?


Thanks guys!

 

[KYpatriot]

this looks like a good methodical process to me but I'm sure I could nitpick a couple things for you to consider.
I think having brass from the same lot, weight sorted, can help with consistency. This may not be noticeable in your final product depending on the inherent precision if the rifle, your skill, and the distance you shoot.

I think you should get some good calipers and a comparator to attach to them and actually measure your fired brass, and then your sized brass, so that you know for sure you are only bumping the shoulder .001-.002. You'd have to be pretty good to do this by hand, and you have no way to QC the brass after sizing without getting the rifle out. You risk oversizing, which would be particularly detrimental to the 7 mag brass life. The only thing you can repeatably do by hand down to the thousandths of an inch is feel depressions or ridges with your fingertips- this isn't that kind of " measurement".

Some people have had good luck with Hornady one shot, others have got stuck cases from time to time. I have loaded thousands of rounds with imperial size wax and have never had a stuck case, and have never heard of anyone sticking a case with it. Whatever lube you use, after the round is complete I wipe them off with a t shirt wetted with rubbing alcohol so they are clean if all lube. This is so the brass can grip the chamber walls as it is supposed to, greatly reduces bolt thrust.

I think the two step cleaning in media is unnecessary. In fact it may be detrimental. I reduced my ES by NOT getting the inside of the case neck squeaky clean. Just before loading with powder I also dip the necks in the imperial neck graphite media. The graphite helped produce a more consistent release. I think bright brass is more " grabby" for lack of a better term.

What kind of failures do you get on the 7 mag brass? 6-7 reloads isn't bad in my opinion.

I think your process is probably pretty good, but since you already have calipers I would for sure double check your accuracy of the shoulder bump since that is a critical step.

 

[Dosh]

P60, add deburr the flash hole and uniform the primer pockets. Anneal when needed.

 

[PowellSixO]

this looks like a good methodical process to me but I'm sure I could nitpick a couple things for you to consider.
I think having brass from the same lot, weight sorted, can help with consistency. This may not be noticeable in your final product depending on the inherent precision if the rifle, your skill, and the distance you shoot.

I think you should get some good calipers and a comparator to attach to them and actually measure your fired brass, and then your sized brass, so that you know for sure you are only bumping the shoulder .001-.002. You'd have to be pretty good to do this by hand, and you have no way to QC the brass after sizing without getting the rifle out. You risk oversizing, which would be particularly detrimental to the 7 mag brass life. The only thing you can repeatably do by hand down to the thousandths of an inch is feel depressions or ridges with your fingertips- this isn't that kind of " measurement".

Some people have had good luck with Hornady one shot, others have got stuck cases from time to time. I have loaded thousands of rounds with imperial size wax and have never had a stuck case, and have never heard of anyone sticking a case with it. Whatever lube you use, after the round is complete I wipe them off with a t shirt wetted with rubbing alcohol so they are clean if all lube. This is so the brass can grip the chamber walls as it is supposed to, greatly reduces bolt thrust.

I think the two step cleaning in media is unnecessary. In fact it may be detrimental. I reduced my ES by NOT getting the inside of the case neck squeaky clean. Just before loading with powder I also dip the necks in the imperial neck graphite media. The graphite helped produce a more consistent release. I think bright brass is more " grabby" for lack of a better term.

What kind of failures do you get on the 7 mag brass? 6-7 reloads isn't bad in my opinion.

I think your process is probably pretty good, but since you already have calipers I would for sure double check your accuracy of the shoulder bump since that is a critical step.

Thank you for your response. I guess I should have included what type of shooting I do in my first post, to give a better idea of what I'm trying to accomplish. I mainly shoot 600 yards or less, but I am going to start shooting out to 1000 yards here very shortly. I like to target practice and hunt with my rifles (deer, elk, and coyotes). I'm considering getting into some competetive shooting in the future as well.

Anyways........
Thanks for the tips on the brass. I know this is something I need to do, but haven't quite got to with the shortage of reloading supplies as of late. Now that I have two very accurate rounds (one for my .243, and one for my 7mm), I guess I need to go ahead and scrap all of my brass and start over with some brand new brass. That way I know it's from the same lot, and so I can keep track of each piece from new. So a quick question about weighing the brass. How close does the brass have to be within the other pieces to be considered good or scrap?

As far as a comparator for measuring the cases, I couldn't agree more with you on this. I want to buy one. What would you recommend, without breaking the bank?

As far a case lube goes, I really like the one shot. I spray it on pretty heavily and rub it into the case with my fingers until the case feels dry. I then resize the brass, and it's a silky smooth. I've never got one stuck in the die. I've never heard of cleaning the lube off the brass though. I'll have to start doing that.

You're probably right about the second cleaning. I'll start doing a better cleaning on the first go around, and then skip the second cleaning.

I like the theory behind the graphite idea. I'll have to experiment with that. Does it cause any fouling, or anything you need to think about when cleaning the barrel.

Which brings up another thing. How often should I clean my barrel?

Thanks again for the response!

 

[PowellSixO]

P60, add deburr the flash hole and uniform the primer pockets. Anneal when needed.

Thanks. Do you have a tool you recommend for deburring the flash hole? Can you explain the process of uniforming the primer pockets please? Also do you recommend a tool for that as well? Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Thanks. Do you have a tool you recommend for deburring the flash hole? Can you explain the process of uniforming the primer pockets please? Also do you recommend a tool for that as well? Thanks.

As with all things there are pros and cons to each tool.
Re deburring: For regular and magnum cases, I like the Possum Hollow Deluxe Flash Hole Deburring Tool because you can't cut to deep. The down side is that you have to clear chips. Lyman Flash Hole Uniformer Tool is what I use for small primer.

Odd, the ones I like are out of stock.....

If you use something other than the Possum Hollow be sure to trim to length first and set the depth stop/guide so you don't over do it.

For uniforming I use Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool Large and Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool Small

 

[KYpatriot]

I don't argue with success...if you are happy with the way your loads are shooting I wouldn't worry about brass sorting. We sometimes have to remind ourselves that we are shooters, not reloaders, so if your reloading process is so extensive that it is cutting into shooting time we could be using to learn the wind and refine our fundamentals of marksmanship then we are screwing up. It is rare even for experienced shooters to miss because of the inherent precision of the rifle/load combo if it is at least a 1 Moa rifle. That is the hard truth, we are almost always the weak link.

That said, reloading the perfect round can be enjoyable in itself so if you have the time little tweaks here and there can help.
Any headspace comparator is adequate. It works exactly like your bullet comparator except it indexes on the case shoulder instead of the bullet ogive.
I didn't mean to mislead you on the second cleaning- you must remove the case lube after sizing...I do this with a rag and you were using the tumbler again. I just think the rag is easier and faster but either will work. Cases need to be dry and lube free before they go in the rifke, that's the main thing.
I like the neck graphite because it takes all if 5 seconds to dip it in there. So the time investment is nothing and it helped reduce vertical at range. It may not help you at all...if I don't see the results on target I don't do it.

Ahhh cleaning, the great debate. The answer to any engineering problem, which shooting is, is " it depends".
A benchrest guy shooting in the zeros and .1s is going to clean often. I clean after exposure weather or if the rifle will be stored or not shot for awhile. My personal philosophy is that for the type of shooting I do I don't need to clean often. My 308 will go 400 rounds before I see any accuracy degradation, if then. I clean it because I can't stand it anymore. It is a factory rifke and after cleaning it takes about 20 rounds before it settles down to its tack driving self again. A good custom barrel will usually shoot consistently after cleaning after a single fouler. Some rifles, usually magnums, can be prone to a carbon buildup in the throat so you would clean more often, maybe every 40-50 rounds. But the rifle will tell you. Shoot it 50 rounds and see how it feels when you clean it. Go more or less depending on what you learn.
Besides always cleaning after exposure to moisture, there are no hard and fast rules. My silly factory 308 will shoot a half inch group after 400 rounds of no cleaning at all. No one would convince me that stopping shooting and cleaning every 20 rounds would help it because it wouldn't. That's 20 cleanings when I could have been shooting, and if it got it down to .3 moa there a handful of shooters in the world who could shoot the difference at 1000 yards.
My custom barrel/larger chambering get cleans more I don't want carbon buildup, and also they settle right back in after cleaning, and it doesn't take mch effort to clean them compared yo factory barrels.
Whatever you do, use a bore guide, keep grit off the rod by wiping it off each pass, never use anything other than brass or nylon bristles, and protect the crown. Poor cleaning technique can ruin a rifles accuracy.
I'm no expert, these are things that have worked for me. Good luck!

 

[PowellSixO]

As with all things there are pros and cons to each tool.
Re deburring: For regular and magnum cases, I like the Possum Hollow Deluxe Flash Hole Deburring Tool because you can't cut to deep. The down side is that you have to clear chips. Lyman Flash Hole Uniformer Tool is what I use for small primer.

Odd, the ones I like are out of stock.....

If you use something other than the Possum Hollow be sure to trim to length first and set the depth stop/guide so you don't over do it.

For uniforming I use Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool Large and Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool Small

Thanks for the links.

I don't argue with success...if you are happy with the way your loads are shooting I wouldn't worry about brass sorting. We sometimes have to remind ourselves that we are shooters, not reloaders, so if your reloading process is so extensive that it is cutting into shooting time we could be using to learn the wind and refine our fundamentals of marksmanship then we are screwing up. It is rare even for experienced shooters to miss because of the inherent precision of the rifle/load combo if it is at least a 1 Moa rifle. That is the hard truth, we are almost always the weak link.

That said, reloading the perfect round can be enjoyable in itself so if you have the time little tweaks here and there can help.
Any headspace comparator is adequate. It works exactly like your bullet comparator except it indexes on the case shoulder instead of the bullet ogive.
I didn't mean to mislead you on the second cleaning- you must remove the case lube after sizing...I do this with a rag and you were using the tumbler again. I just think the rag is easier and faster but either will work. Cases need to be dry and lube free before they go in the rifke, that's the main thing.
I like the neck graphite because it takes all if 5 seconds to dip it in there. So the time investment is nothing and it helped reduce vertical at range. It may not help you at all...if I don't see the results on target I don't do it.

Ahhh cleaning, the great debate. The answer to any engineering problem, which shooting is, is " it depends".
A benchrest guy shooting in the zeros and .1s is going to clean often. I clean after exposure weather or if the rifle will be stored or not shot for awhile. My personal philosophy is that for the type of shooting I do I don't need to clean often. My 308 will go 400 rounds before I see any accuracy degradation, if then. I clean it because I can't stand it anymore. It is a factory rifke and after cleaning it takes about 20 rounds before it settles down to its tack driving self again. A good custom barrel will usually shoot consistently after cleaning after a single fouler. Some rifles, usually magnums, can be prone to a carbon buildup in the throat so you would clean more often, maybe every 40-50 rounds. But the rifle will tell you. Shoot it 50 rounds and see how it feels when you clean it. Go more or less depending on what you learn.
Besides always cleaning after exposure to moisture, there are no hard and fast rules. My silly factory 308 will shoot a half inch group after 400 rounds of no cleaning at all. No one would convince me that stopping shooting and cleaning every 20 rounds would help it because it wouldn't. That's 20 cleanings when I could have been shooting, and if it got it down to .3 moa there a handful of shooters in the world who could shoot the difference at 1000 yards.
My custom barrel/larger chambering get cleans more I don't want carbon buildup, and also they settle right back in after cleaning, and it doesn't take mch effort to clean them compared yo factory barrels.
Whatever you do, use a bore guide, keep grit off the rod by wiping it off each pass, never use anything other than brass or nylon bristles, and protect the crown. Poor cleaning technique can ruin a rifles accuracy.
I'm no expert, these are things that have worked for me. Good luck!

Thanks again for the response. I'm already getting pretty good accuracy with my loads. If I do my part, I can maintain a constant average of .6-.7 moa at 100 and out to 500 yards. Beyond that I need to practice. From time to time I'll squeak in a .5 moa, but it's not the norm. I will for sure agree that I'm am the weak link when it comes to accuracy. Haha. Thanks for the info on barrel cleaning.

One more question for everyone. Is case neck turning something I should also look into doing? Is it a big enough factor for me to worry about?

I know that reloading is time consuming, but I enjoy it very much. It's kind of like a break for me. Plus I don't sit down and reload 100 rounds at a time. So the length of the process doesn't bother me much. I enjoy doing it, and enjoy being able to shoot amazing groups considering the relatively low cost of the rifles I'm shooting. One day I'll pony up some real cash and get into competitive shooting. I think I'd enjoy that too.

 

[Dosh]

P60, to protect the bore, get a Lucas Bore Guide for cleaning. A well known gunsmith once said, if you don't use a good bore guide, don't bother to clean the barrel. I won't suggest which brand solvent since there are more brands and proponents than you can count. Just remember, the less activity in the bore, the better. Good luck and have a nice holiday season.

 

[PowellSixO]

Oh and another question/s. I hear guys talking about measuring the pressure ring.

What are they talking about exactly?

Where are they taking this measurement?

What are the tolerances I should be looking for?