Looking at buying one of these 3 muzzle loaders

[zmason1002]

Hey, I'm new to the forum and some what new to muzzle loading. I borrowed a friends old Knight last year and took a smaller doe with it and now I'm wanting to buy my own. I have it down to 3 choices and I'm wondering if you guys and gals could help me decide.

1) Knight Mountaineer

2) Remington 700 Ultimate

3) Knight Disc Extreme.

I would like to keep it a bolt and I'm in Iowa so the Western Open primer doesn't apply. I want a thumb hole stock which I know the Remington doesn't have.

I like the looks of the Mountaineer and from every piece of information I could find says it's built to tighter specs than the Disc Extreme. I feel that would be a benefit, I like the idea of a longer barrel but I haven't handled any of them so I'm not sure about weight and balance. Only doing internet research so far it looks like the Mountaineer is of better quality than the Disc but I haven't laid my hands on any yet.

I like the centerfire cartridge of the Remington and the broader range of powder (not that I would shoot 200grains but I have more options with loads and range). I like the 700 action of the Remington. I wish I could get it in a thumb hole stock. There isn't many reviews on the Remington and the few I have read there has been barrel issues and accuracy issues. Most of them have been over a year old and some with no follow up after the gun was sent off.

The Disc Extreme I think would be a great rifle but I'm looking at buying only one rifle and having it last me and my kids along time and I want to be able to shoot 250 + yards which I think could be done with this rifle but wondering if the mountaineer be better, more accurate and last longer. The biggest plus on the Disc extreme is price. It's over 200 dollars cheaper but I would be willing to spend 200 bucks more for a better built gun. Price is really the reason the Extreme is in the running.

Any help would be greatly appriecated. It would be nice if someone has handled and shot a new mountaineer and extreme, and if I'm lucky the Remington. Thanks!

I did post this in another forum and was told to check into a TC Encore and CVA Accura V2 or MR also I was pushed hard towards a Savage 10MLII. I'm open to all suggestions but the first three was the ones I originally had it narrowed down to.

 

[zmason1002]

Also I say I want to shoot out to 250 + yards but I really want to do that just for fun. around $1000 is where I want to stay for budget, with or with out a scope. I know people say you are to spend more on a scope than the gun but I have shot lower end scopes and have done well enough with them that I can't justify a 1000 dollar scope.

 

[tnshooter111]

Check out dougs message board. You will find all kinds of information. Home | Doug's Message Boards

 

[ENCORE]

Of the three you have listed, the Mountaineer hands down. However if you order one, get it with the 209 bare primer ignition. If I were to get a new production rifle at this point, the Mountaineer would be my choice.

The Remington, well I just heard another bad report yesterday while at a dealer. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the ignition system in the RU. The system has been used by Ultimate Firearms Inc. since 2001 (Remington purchased the rights from UF Inc.). Although some are using BH209 in the rifle, there is still no loading data from Remington or Western. There were a few really bad barrels that made it out in the beginning. I had one here that a guy wanted setup and Remington purchased the UNFIRED rifle back from the owner. IMO the rifle would shoot much better with a different bullet than Remington is recommending, but then of course Remington and the bullet manufacture are owned by the same holding company. There are owners who have gotten the rifle to shoot extremely well and at long range. However IIRC, all have developed loads different than recommended.

Good luck with your choice.


Doug's has more smokeless shooters than BP or substitute shooters. If you don't want being hounded about converting to smokeless, maybe Doug's may not be your best bet.

 

[zmason1002]

Why the bare 209? What is the advantage of it? Also .50 or .52 cal?

 

[ENCORE]

Why the bare 209? What is the advantage of it? Also .50 or .52 cal?

There's no disc use with the bare primer. The disc system works, but its one less thing used. Many are switching the older disc rifles over to the bare primer kits.

The .50 IMO is the way to go over the .52. The .52 has been on sale and is cheaper, but most are using the .50.

 

[zmason1002]

Thanks for your input. That was my feelings as well and after looking at bullet selection for .52 there wasn't a whole lot.

 

[Cuda]

If you do not like to do a lot of cleaning you might want to check out Doug's Message Board. I am in Iowa on the East side I have two Smoke less muzzle loaders. One is a Savage 10ML-ll 50cal the other is a custom 45cal I build. Both guns are zeroed at 200yds and both are bolt actions. Arrowhead Sporting Goods is in Iowa he helped me with my 45cal. What I really like about them is I cleaned the barrels when I got them new. And have not cleaned them since I do clean the breech plug once a season and that is it. With the 45cal I shoot sabot less. They would easily kill a deer at more than 300yds with practice shooting that far.

 

[ENCORE]

I would suggest that prior to anyone buying a smokeless muzzleloader, that they verify rather their state allows smokeless propellant muzzleloaders.
Some states that have dedicated muzzleloader seasons specifically state, no smokeless propellants. BP or BP substitutes only. If they have a CF season or area, then during the regular firearm season they may be allowed but, I would be very clear on rather smokeless propellant can be used in an individual's state and certainly during any designated muzzleloader season.

It should also be noted, smokeless propellants used in muzzleloaders, even those designed for smokeless propellants, can be very dangerous. Operator error? Well that's all it takes for a ruptured barrel, possible loss of fingers, hands or worse.
You may ring a barrel using BP or BP substitutes, but when using smokeless its far more dangerous when a barrel ruptures. Quite evident by the numbers of ruptured barrels in the last couple years.

IIRC...... Knight is making another run of .45's with the 1:20 twist. That rifle with the 209 bolt would be a dandy!

 

[Cuda]

You can double load a black powder gun too! And it will blow up the operator is the one and only one that should check if it was loaded before loading. And all muzzle loaders can blow up if dirt or anything gets into the barrel before it is fired. Some older guns will not take the black powder loads of to day. ALL GUNS SHOULD BE MADE FOR THE POWDERS YOU ARE USEING IN THEM. NEVER USE THE WRONG POWDER IN YOUR GUN! And he said he was from IOWA so am I and we can use smoke less. Most blown up guns were double loaded by the operator. In the Civil War many guns were double or triple charged in the heat of battle.

 

[zmason1002]

I've debated on smokeless but I was hoping to stay right around a $1k scoped. I'm still looking, I really have it narrowed down to the Remington and Mountaineer, Leaning more towards the mountaineer incase I was to take it on an out of state hunt.

 

[zmason1002]

Another thing also, I shoot rifles and shotguns. I still clean them after so many shots, or after deer season. don't get me wrong shooting a black powdered you have to clean them after every time, but to not clean a gun but just once is scary to me. I even clean my .22 more than once.

 

[ENCORE]

I've debated on smokeless but I was hoping to stay right around a $1k scoped. I'm still looking, I really have it narrowed down to the Remington and Mountaineer, Leaning more towards the mountaineer incase I was to take it on an out of state hunt.

The Mountaineer is a really nice rifle. If Knight is making another run of the .45cal and 1:20 twists, I'll repeat, that would be a dandy to own.

 

[zmason1002]

with a .45 cal do you shoot sabotless or with sabots?? I don't know anything about the .45s