Is an ELD-M basically just a tipped berger?

[dustineriksen37]

I see his writeup of the ELD-X but don't find him recommending the ELD-M as a hunting bullet or any associated data. Do you have a more specific link?

I too thought the ELDM's or A-Tip's with their high BC's would be good bullet alternatives to Berger, however I usually run larger capacity cartridge's with higher velocity loads. This poses a problem for the ELDM and A-Tip bullets in their ability to handle rotational RPM. I have read too many accounts of the ELDM's and A-Tip's vaporizing 30 to 100 yards out of the muzzle. In particular the 6.5 147 grain ELDM and 153 grain A-Tip projectiles in hand loads, and even factory 6.5 PRC ammo running (275,000 rpm)! 290,000 to 300,00 rpm seems to be considered the practical limit for jacketed bullets. Erick Steckler of Berger posted quite a lengthy write up on this topic in 2007 on LRH. The higher the velocity, faster the twist, the squarer the rifling, the more friction, the more likely these bullets will come apart.

I have Bartlein 5R gains twist barrels, to reduce friction and mitigate this problem.
I have never heard of, or have experienced any Berger bullets blowingup on the way to the target.

I will not consider using the ELDM, or A-Tip Hornady projectiles in anything at higher velocities.

I shoot 147 eldm out of my 26 nosler with 1/8 twist rate, never had a issue. Shot a deer at 240 yards this last hunting season, the bullet performed perfectly, golf size exit hole with hitting ribs on both sides.

 

[chav0_12]

I have to much respect for the grand beasts we pursue to roll the dice on their protracted misery with a target bullet that was never designed to deliver lethal terminal ballistics. This isn't a petty matter of ego. This is a matter of ethics.

I see your point but sometimes even the "designed for hunting" bullets can fail.

 

[Huntz]

Rose you know I'm a fan but there are 30+ pages on the hide of SMK kills of people that are incredible shots. I think it's a bit disingenuous to paint a broad brush like that. Most folks that reload their own ammo aren't remotely comparable to your average hunter, who walks into sportsmans and takes advice of the counter guy as gospel.

To my second point because this discussion will be beat to death till the end of time. I honestly think either will work. I've been hunting with match bullets for the last 10 years, granted only on medium size game. I think we're forgetting that technology has advanced bullet and jacket design so much that match bullets are pretty viable for hunting game. I say this all the time and you've reiterated on it in this thread, but poke holes where they need to go and the animal will go down. I'm not saying hunt elk with an RDF. But the ELD has proven to be completely formidable for hunting game. The bullet design is eerily similar to it's hunting cousin the ELD-X, jacket thickness and expansion void withstanding.

Barbour creek has ample video comparison's at extended range. Now I'm not advocating shooting elk at 900yds with a 6.5CM. But I wouldn't fret to much about taking my 180gr ELDm out of my 7 Sherman Short for an elk, least I have yet to recover a bullet from any whitetail in the past 3 years from 330yds to 641yds. Through and through it's been a monster. I know elk are different. My point is while the accubond is a wonderful bullet, I think it's an oversimplification to just say match bullets are terrible this day in age. My experience is just opposite of that.

Jeez,you should not confuse folks with factual information.Its much better to tell folks you have shot thousands of animals with no actual proof.Just sayin,Huntz

 

[sendero72]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread yet, but there is a pretty good comparison of the 2 ELD bullets on YouTube. Food for thought.

 

[cjs88]

I guess in the end, hot lead is hot lead. Anything going fast enough with great shot placement will drop anything. I am still very new to hunting but never would have thought to use match ammo.

 

[Chevy_52]

When comparing Berger target bullets to edlm target bullets the OPs assumptions have been correct from my experience. I don't use either of these for hunting but have seen them used numerous times in 7mm. The 180 edlms have been very consistent in there performance on game where the Berger hybrid targets have been less consistent. The Berger's failed to open and tumbled on a few animals. The edlm have been have performed consistently and all opened and showed fine results.

Edlx have shown to be a good hunting bullet but they definitely harder to get to shoot than the edlms or Berger's. If your gun likes them they are great but it seems to be about 50/50 for the guns I've tried them in.

My advice instead of messing with either of the targets bullets get the Berger elite hunters. Target bullet Accuracy and long range performance and they are consistent and killers on the 20ish animals I've used them on. Only reason I use a few different bullet is cuz I can't find enough elites now a days.

I totally agree that the elite hunters is the way to go for hunting but if one is comparing the (for example) 208 ELDM to the Berger 208 hybrid target bullets you will find that the quality control of the Bergers far exceeds that of Hornady. Especially the BTO distance when one is trying to seat bullets a precise distance from the lands it's very difficult when bto fluctuates 3-7 thous. A nice thing about the hybrid Bergers is they are much less sensitive to seating depth than most bullets. Regardless, to say that eldm's are a tipped Berger is more of a pipe dream than reality.

 

[griz375]

Been researching these bullets a fair amount. I've already killed a decent amount with bergers, but the ELD-M's have peaked my interest lately also. It seems like their construction is very similar, except for the tip on the ELD-M. I think the tip on the ELD-M may make expansion just a hair quicker at closer ranges, but aid in the expansion, and more importantly, consistent expansion, at longer ranges.

I've been looking specifically at the 225 ELD-M as an option for my 300 NMI. They are readily available and have a higher BC than the 230 Hybrid Bergers.

Curious if this makes sense to anyone haha? Or if anyone has used both for a comparison? Or even specifically, used the 225 ELD-M as of late for killing deer & elk.

Food for thought! Avoid hitting close to any part of the critter you plan to eat. Hunting with a friend this year who was sold on the 212 grain ELD-M in his 300 wm. Shot a small bull elk in the shoulder at 185 yards and it literally destroyed both front shoulders. The only thing on that bullet that stayed remotly intact was the jacket. Recovered weight was a total of 65 grains. The jacket probably weighed 40 grains when new, 2 grains for the polymer tip, recovered 25 grains of lead leaving about 145 grains of lead splattered through your food.

Below is a picture of a 168 grain tsx I pulled from an elk, the shot was 485 yards and he went down in his tracks. In my opinion this is the performance you want to see from a bullet used for hunting.

 

[sp6x6]

There are pages of info on kill with said bullet over on LRO. And many with smaller calibers Like 6.5. The debate that you cant use a target bullet ,which berger are.Piles of info on positve performance.What I hunt with otm or hybrid last 12 years,no losses.My rifles account for usually a few elk a year and other game.I shoot threw 90%, never found a bullet yet.I blew big holes threw moose and elk at under 50 yrds.Probably 75 % game I shoot doesnt take another step

 

[born2hunt4ever]

Food for thought! Avoid hitting close to any part of the critter you plan to eat. Hunting with a friend this year who was sold on the 212 grain ELD-M in his 300 wm. Shot a small bull elk in the shoulder at 185 yards and it literally destroyed both front shoulders. The only thing on that bullet that stayed remotly intact was the jacket. Recovered weight was a total of 65 grains. The jacket probably weighed 40 grains when new, 2 grains for the polymer tip, recovered 25 grains of lead leaving about 145 grains of lead splattered through your food.

Below is a picture of a 168 grain tsx I pulled from an elk, the shot was 485 yards and he went down in his tracks. In my opinion this is the performance you want to see from a bullet used for hunting.View attachment 340830

That 212 grain bullet is the eld-x which is hornadys hunting bullet. They don't make the eld-m in 212 grain. Not trying to be rude just thought because we are talking about the eld-m and match Vs hunting the bullet your buddy used is their hunting bullet. I haven't tried the 212 but I have shot the 200 grain eld x out of my 300 win mag and had the same results. The best I've found for not totally destroying the meat in eld x line is the 220 grain out of my 300 ultra. Good luck and happy hunting

 

[hunterbytrade]

Thanks for some insight into your experience with them!


Good to hear! I'm honestly not worried about long range performance as much as I am close range performance. I feel like they would be an excellent long range bullet!


Yeah I killed a few bucks with the ELD-X and they did their job for sure! I'm also just not scared to shoot a target bullet at game either though. Especially a 225gr. at a big mule deer. They can't handle that kind of trauma like an elk possibly can.

I shot a buck last year at 75 yds and a bull at 375 yds with the 225 eldm. Lights out on both.

 

[GrayCreed]

Been researching these bullets a fair amount. I've already killed a decent amount with bergers, but the ELD-M's have peaked my interest lately also. It seems like their construction is very similar, except for the tip on the ELD-M. I think the tip on the ELD-M may make expansion just a hair quicker at closer ranges, but aid in the expansion, and more importantly, consistent expansion, at longer ranges.

I've been looking specifically at the 225 ELD-M as an option for my 300 NMI. They are readily available and have a higher BC than the 230 Hybrid Bergers.

Curious if this makes sense to anyone haha? Or if anyone has used both for a comparison? Or even specifically, used the 225 ELD-M as of late for killing deer & elk.

I don't have experience shooting game with either but from what I have been told the "hybrid" part in the Bergers refers to the hybrid secant ogive. This is designed to make the bullet less sensitive to seating depth. In my experience this is not the case with the ELDM. Also the ELDM for some stupid reason generates pressure ALOT faster than the ELDX. All this contributes to me being more frustrated doing load development for those stupid things! I have got them to shoot very very good (140 in 6.5) but they just don't go in there as easily as a HPBT bullet. I would make sure your not starting them closer than .010" from the lands unless you want to see pressure quick. Bottom line is if you already have the Bergers shooting well why not stick with them? If you only have 25 left build a trainer rifle in a smaller caliber and shoot the crap out of Hornady bthps! (This also gives you the excuse to buy another gun)!!!

 

[judgebill]

I've killed probably 100 to 120 big game animals with Nosler Accubonds. They die plenty fast when you hit em in the vitals. 12 to 700 yds. Multiple calibers, short action to long action. Deer, bear, hogs, elk. Dead. No suffering or delay. I've killed another 20 or 30 with eld-m and Berger bullets. I like them for ranges beyond 400 yds. Not too fond of how they react on bone especially under 200 yds. Make one hell of a mess. But they do fly straight, cut the wind and make a guy not have to be so perfect on his wind calls at 600 to 800 yds. My system is I carry two types of bullets with me. A controlled expansion or mono for close range, which are in my rifle at all times. When, and if I need a vld style bullet for 400+ yds I grab those from my pack while I'm setting up. This system works great for me. I just spend some extra range time finding a controlled expansion or mono that has nearly the exact same point of impact preferably an inch high or low at 100 and write it down on my dope card. I never know what bullet is going to be the one. Could be a Hammer, Scirocco, Accubond or Barnes LRX but there's always one that shoots really close to a ABLR, Berger or Eld-m. Just takes more trigger time and a guy can always use more of that in his life. Win-win.

Now this makes sense. Remember, the wisdom of a person is measured by the extent to which they agree with you. This is a wise man. If your critter is found beyond 500 yards your time to shoot is usually [but admittedly, not always] greater...and you have time to eject what you might be carrying in your chamber and exchange it for the "long-range cartridge". Of course you may not be carrying a round in the chamber. But you can usually find the time to switch loads for the long-range shot. Which allows you to choose loads for close shooting (thin coating over lead body) or long range (monolithic). Something to think about.

 

[griz375]

That 212 grain bullet is the eld-x which is hornadys hunting bullet. They don't make the eld-m in 212 grain. Not trying to be rude just thought because we are talking about the eld-m and match Vs hunting the bullet your buddy used is their hunting bullet. I haven't tried the 212 but I have shot the 200 grain eld x out of my 300 win mag and had the same results. The best I've found for not totally destroying the meat in eld x line is the 220 grain out of my 300 ultra. Good luck and happy hunting

Freudian slip on my part. You are correct the 212 is the ELD X. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Tidus56]

I've killed probably 100 to 120 big game animals with Nosler Accubonds. They die plenty fast when you hit em in the vitals. 12 to 700 yds. Multiple calibers, short action to long action. Deer, bear, hogs, elk. Dead. No suffering or delay. I've killed another 20 or 30 with eld-m and Berger bullets. I like them for ranges beyond 400 yds. Not too fond of how they react on bone especially under 200 yds. Make one hell of a mess. But they do fly straight, cut the wind and make a guy not have to be so perfect on his wind calls at 600 to 800 yds. My system is I carry two types of bullets with me. A controlled expansion or mono for close range, which are in my rifle at all times. When, and if I need a vld style bullet for 400+ yds I grab those from my pack while I'm setting up. This system works great for me. I just spend some extra range time finding a controlled expansion or mono that has nearly the exact same point of impact preferably an inch high or low at 100 and write it down on my dope card. I never know what bullet is going to be the one. Could be a Hammer, Scirocco, Accubond or Barnes LRX but there's always one that shoots really close to a ABLR, Berger or Eld-m. Just takes more trigger time and a guy can always use more of that in his life. Win-win.

I am curious how you sight in for the two different cartridges you use? Do you try to match velocity or what do you do with your sight in ti make your two cartridge system work?