Giving up some preference points

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by snowymtn, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. snowymtn

    snowymtn New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Does anyone else think the preference point system is a racket? When I started applying for Big Horn Sheep Wyoming pref pts 10 years ago it only required 15 (ha, only) years of points. Now it is 20+. I started buying moose 3 years ago and it was 15 years, and now it shop up to 20 years and they are increasing the price dramatically this year, so I gave up on moose. Guess I'll try for Yukon moose where they say that there are 2 moose for every person. Now those are some good odds.

    Every state is different and it almost takes a college degree to understand how each state is different on their licenses, points, hunt types, and draws.
     
    HARPERC likes this.
  2. KyCarl

    KyCarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    390
    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    Sure it's a SCAM of the first order! "They" don't want you to hunt or own guns!
    If they can make it as complicated and expensive as they can ..You will give up!
    They started screwing us with Pitman Roberts and haven't let up!
    We carry the cost but they make the rules? PLEASE remember this when you VOTE next week. Kentucky raffles off a bull elk tag every year which is WRONG they should have to be in the draw like everyone else.
     
  3. KurtB

    KurtB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    208
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    I stopped paying Utah, Arizona and Iowa in the last 7 years. I still hit low point areas in WY for deer or antelope on rare occasion. It doesn't matter how much they raise the prices, they will still have people lined up to try and win a golden ticket.

    If a guy wants sheep or moose, make sure your retirement savings are on track, then take some extra and start saving. If a guy understands statistics, he wouldn't waste money on powerball tickets or big game draws.
     
    iowaelkbum and joseph singleton like this.
  4. Frenchie1

    Frenchie1 Active Member

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    I know the feeling snowymtn! My buddy and I started applying for a Utah limited entry deer tag in 1999, for, what was then, a great area that should have taken around 10 points to draw. Flash forward to 2018 and the area has been divided in to two areas and the quality of the herd has dropped dramatically, plus as a bonus knife to our backs, Utah, in 2009, began making us buy a hunting license before being able to apply for just the point instead of just purchasing the point like we had in the past. Neither of us live in Utah so scouting the area is few and far between so the entire thing has us at the point of giving up after all these years. On top of all of that, since neither of us are well enough off financially, to apply to multiple states each year, Utah's draw results come out after other states deadlines for applying. I have made several calls to Utah fish and game just asking for someone to be able to explain how the draw system works because I sure don't understand it and I have been transferred from person to person and told to try a different number so many times, it is not even funny. Maybe I just have not found the right person to explain it all and/or I am just to simple minded. In either case, we are only going to give it this next year and if not successful, look at it like we have donated our money for all these years.
     
  5. Plinker147

    Plinker147 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    308
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Point creep is why preference point system don’t work. They work well enough on hunts that only take 3-4 points, the demand isn’t as high and everyone gets there turn every 4 years.

    On high demand species/ hunts they don’t work. If I started putting in for sheep or the strip now by the time I would have 20 points, point creep will take it to 30 points. They pretty much rule out a new guy trying to get one of those tags. I don’t like point systems for that reason. A random draw where everyone is on the same playing field every year is the best system IMO.

    When the demand is higher than the # of license available there really isn’t a perfect system to make it fair but random draw with no points is the fairest.
     
  6. dok7mm

    dok7mm Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,008
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2015
    Plus one on random draw being the fairest, but New Mexico is the only state, that I'm aware of, that has a true random draw system.

    I'm beginning to believe it's cheaper to buy landowner tags, at least for deer, antelope & elk. Sheep, moose and goats are a different deal, we're stuck with the draw and point creep.
     
  7. Pulpwood

    Pulpwood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
     
  8. Pulpwood

    Pulpwood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Yes sir , that’s the same reasons my friends and I quit applying for Colorado . I started hunting co in 1990 and more points were required every year to draw. I found another state with better hunting and easier to deal with. Good luck
     
  9. codym

    codym Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Joined:
    May 11, 2018
    I personally love our draw system here in NM. Sure there needs to be a few tweaks here or there with the number of tags in the draw, LO tags, and outfitter stuff but we have an awesome system. I would fight tooth and nail against a point system. It's BS.
     
    dok7mm and iowaelkbum like this.
  10. lancetkenyon

    lancetkenyon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    In AZ, the max point holders only get 10% of the tags. Meaning 90% is still up for grabs. The more bonus points you have, the more random numbers you get to try and get a low number. Meaning better chances of drawing a tag.

    What would you rather have for a great hunting unit? A 20 out of 100K chance? Or a 1 out of 100K chance?

    Took me 18 years as a resident to draw an early rifle elk tag. Now, if I wanted a late rifle tag in an average unit, I could draw 3 out of 5 years probably.

    But then again, my 14 year old daughter drew a late rifle rut deer tag on the Kaibab with only her hunter's ed point, and I have never drawn that tag in 25 years, with as many as 8 points. Go figure.

    And I have 25 BPs for AZ antelope......
     
  11. KyCarl

    KyCarl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    390
    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    What about outfitters buying points? They guarantee a tag?
    I've seen this in several advertisements so it must be common practice?
    It doesn't seem fair to me or I'm missing something?
     
  12. JohnnieB

    JohnnieB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    161
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2012
    I'm with ya on this one. I live in CA and while there are some fantastic animals to hunt here, the preference point system in this state defines that 90% (I believe) of the tag allotment goes to the highest pref point holders. Then the remaining 10% goes into a general draw. It sucks so bad that a new hunter, 16 years old applying for every high demand hunt in CA will NEVER achieve max preference points in a normal hunting life of up to 70 years old. Its a sham and everyone in this state knows it.

    I do apply for some specific hunts out of state and have had some success with draw hunts where the preference points just give you more chances at the same tag with the rest of the public. What I have discovered by doing the math, it is simply more cost beneficial to purchase auction tags, or landowner tags & go have fun!
     
  13. HARPERC

    HARPERC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,980
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    It's one of the worst things that's happened to hunting. Game departments became wildlife departments, because they don't need to sell tags to get by, they no longer manage for high game numbers, opportunity and service has fell to pitiful.
     
    Plinker147 likes this.
  14. Pulpwood

    Pulpwood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    The high demand states are using our federal land as a money stream . I understand with the high demand numbers of hunters and game have to be kept in ck but charging a arm and a leg is a different story