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Full length sizing ?
- Thread starter WhiteOak
- Start date
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Vomact
Member
If you are using standard full length dies and press you can bump them fairly easily.
"Smoke' the neck of the fired case with a candle flame. Then back the die off from the press cylinder with the press ram fully extended. Run the case into the die. Pay careful attention to how much of the neck gets sized as you progressively turn the die down. When you have determined the die position for 'neck only' resizing, to should turn the die down in small increments (1/8 a turn or less) and then test the case in your rifle to test how much resistance there is to chambering.
Each time you turn the die down the case should become easier to chamber i.e. bolt closure becomes easier as the shoulder is progressively moved back.
Exactly where you stop depends upon the chamber of your rifle and how much of a 'bump' back you want. Case life can be greatly enhanced by neck only and\or bumping the shoulder
Many sources can be found on the web on this procedure. If you use Gold Medal RCBS bushing dies the instructions on bumping the shoulder come with the dies.
Some die manufacturers make special shoulder bump only dies.
I hope this answers your question.
V
"Smoke' the neck of the fired case with a candle flame. Then back the die off from the press cylinder with the press ram fully extended. Run the case into the die. Pay careful attention to how much of the neck gets sized as you progressively turn the die down. When you have determined the die position for 'neck only' resizing, to should turn the die down in small increments (1/8 a turn or less) and then test the case in your rifle to test how much resistance there is to chambering.
Each time you turn the die down the case should become easier to chamber i.e. bolt closure becomes easier as the shoulder is progressively moved back.
Exactly where you stop depends upon the chamber of your rifle and how much of a 'bump' back you want. Case life can be greatly enhanced by neck only and\or bumping the shoulder
Many sources can be found on the web on this procedure. If you use Gold Medal RCBS bushing dies the instructions on bumping the shoulder come with the dies.
Some die manufacturers make special shoulder bump only dies.
I hope this answers your question.
V
Yes , thank you Vomact,
Before I buy the equipment , I need to know what I'm after. I would like to neck size only but I just don't know about how many times I can get away with it without problems.
I'm totally novice , I'm studying though !
I do know that I can take one of my once fired cases and chamber it and extract it easily.
Before I buy the equipment , I need to know what I'm after. I would like to neck size only but I just don't know about how many times I can get away with it without problems.
I'm totally novice , I'm studying though !
I do know that I can take one of my once fired cases and chamber it and extract it easily.
Bill Johnson
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2014
- Messages
- 102
That won't last long. The first thing you should buy is a good quality full length sizing die. I know it's heresy but most factory chambers see little if any improvement in accuracy from just neck sizing. You're better off ensuring your F/L dies are producing concentric ammo.
As far as bumping shoulders, just to add to Vamact's fine comments, because of work hardening, I use a fresh case to check every die adjustment.
As dies are 7/8" x 14, 1/8 turn yields .0089" change in die depth adjustment, or pretty darn close to .001.
I smoked cases for years and you can get good results. Decreased visual acuity forced me to find a better way. Now I find a cheap bushing at the hardware stoire that will set of the shoulder. Measure a fired case and you want your die set-up to push the shoulder back about .003. This method is cheap, easy and accurate. 30 calibers are easy as most use a .375 bushing. Other calibers are also easy. Just look at the SAAMI spec for the datum measurement and drill the bushing out to the appropriate size. It doesn't have to be exact, anywhere around mid-shoulder works just fine. Remember, your taking a differential measurement.
I hope this helps!
I think this picture is Larry's or UncleNicks. I use a standard dial caliper.
Vomact
Member
If you are at the equipment buying stage you have a lot of options and also a major problem.
Electric guitar players (such as yours truly) and metallic case re-loaders can suffer from a horrible, wallet debilitating malady known among musicians as G.A.S. This stands for Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
You can go for your brains buying gear (or at least really irritate your significant other) when this affliction strikes. I should to know. I have P.O'ed my wife quite a few times!
If it is gear (and simplicity) you are looking for I would recommend that you check out the following online dealers. If you have a tech question they have online help to answer your questions.
BROWNELLS: http://www.brownells.com/
or
Sinclair International: http://www.sinclairintl.com/ (Brownells and Sinclair are basically the same company)
or
Midway: Shop Shooting Supplies | Reloading | Gunsmithing | Hunting gear — MidwayUSA
If your looking for it they (in all probability) have it. If you really get into the bench-rest, precision reloading thing you can spend beaucoups bucks if you are not careful.
IMHO you can do worse than buy a set of L.E. Wilson straight line dies (Neck only, Full length, and bullet seater). These types do not use a standard press, but an arbor press. This is a plus as these are very portable and you can take them to the range when you do your load work up. This type of setup, however, is not cheap. I would check the classifieds here to see if anybody is selling something that you are needing. You can sometimes save some serious $.
I shoot long range varmint\target and bench-rest and whenever I am chronographing loads, or at a match, the dies and all the other impedimenta come with me.
As you can see, if shoot several calibers this gets to be expensive, fast!
As an example, I just (finally) got my Savage Model 12 Lpv DBM in 22-250 REM. I am using the RCBS Gold Medal dies (full length\shoulder bump and Micrometer bullet seater) and a Wilson Neck only and micrometer bullet seater. This combination I find useful as they accept the same neck size bushings, however together they probably cost close to $400.
If you go this route I would recommend buying the stainless steel bushings and not the titanium nitride bushings that RCBS makes. It's not that the nitride ones aren't nice but the stainless neck bushings are just as effective and cost about a third of the price. The advantage they have over the stainless steel is that they will probably outlive human civilization and you don't have to lube the case necks when sizing.
That's my 2 cents (and $400).
Good luck and have Fun!
V
Electric guitar players (such as yours truly) and metallic case re-loaders can suffer from a horrible, wallet debilitating malady known among musicians as G.A.S. This stands for Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
You can go for your brains buying gear (or at least really irritate your significant other) when this affliction strikes. I should to know. I have P.O'ed my wife quite a few times!
If it is gear (and simplicity) you are looking for I would recommend that you check out the following online dealers. If you have a tech question they have online help to answer your questions.
BROWNELLS: http://www.brownells.com/
or
Sinclair International: http://www.sinclairintl.com/ (Brownells and Sinclair are basically the same company)
or
Midway: Shop Shooting Supplies | Reloading | Gunsmithing | Hunting gear — MidwayUSA
If your looking for it they (in all probability) have it. If you really get into the bench-rest, precision reloading thing you can spend beaucoups bucks if you are not careful.
IMHO you can do worse than buy a set of L.E. Wilson straight line dies (Neck only, Full length, and bullet seater). These types do not use a standard press, but an arbor press. This is a plus as these are very portable and you can take them to the range when you do your load work up. This type of setup, however, is not cheap. I would check the classifieds here to see if anybody is selling something that you are needing. You can sometimes save some serious $.
I shoot long range varmint\target and bench-rest and whenever I am chronographing loads, or at a match, the dies and all the other impedimenta come with me.
As you can see, if shoot several calibers this gets to be expensive, fast!
As an example, I just (finally) got my Savage Model 12 Lpv DBM in 22-250 REM. I am using the RCBS Gold Medal dies (full length\shoulder bump and Micrometer bullet seater) and a Wilson Neck only and micrometer bullet seater. This combination I find useful as they accept the same neck size bushings, however together they probably cost close to $400.
If you go this route I would recommend buying the stainless steel bushings and not the titanium nitride bushings that RCBS makes. It's not that the nitride ones aren't nice but the stainless neck bushings are just as effective and cost about a third of the price. The advantage they have over the stainless steel is that they will probably outlive human civilization and you don't have to lube the case necks when sizing.
That's my 2 cents (and $400).
Good luck and have Fun!
V
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
WhiteOak, to begin, sizing requirements depend on your cartridge, chamber clearances, and load intent (pressure-wise).
Can you fill in some blanks here?
True FL sizing dies cover every type of sizing in one move(except when partial neck sizing).
FL bushing dies are really body-bushing dies, and not FL dies at all. They allow body sizing, including shoulder bump with partial neck sizing. There are FL bushing dies that include the shoulder in the bushing, performing actual FL sizing. I see no advantage over a good FL die here.
Bushing bump dies support the case bodies for shoulder bumping, and provide for partial neck sizing. This is typically the least amount of sizing.
Most factory cartridge designs, combined with SAAMI chambers, will not allow minimal sizing for long. But as with anything else in reloading, there are always exceptions.
Can you fill in some blanks here?
True FL sizing dies cover every type of sizing in one move(except when partial neck sizing).
FL bushing dies are really body-bushing dies, and not FL dies at all. They allow body sizing, including shoulder bump with partial neck sizing. There are FL bushing dies that include the shoulder in the bushing, performing actual FL sizing. I see no advantage over a good FL die here.
Bushing bump dies support the case bodies for shoulder bumping, and provide for partial neck sizing. This is typically the least amount of sizing.
Most factory cartridge designs, combined with SAAMI chambers, will not allow minimal sizing for long. But as with anything else in reloading, there are always exceptions.
Thanks guys , I just need something simple and effective , I'm looking for 1 MOA or less for deer hunting. I plan on getting RCBS equip.
Vomact , I've been playing guitar since I was 6 years old and have been playing in bands since I was 15, I'm 42 now and I got tired.
Thanks again for everyone's help !!
Vomact , I've been playing guitar since I was 6 years old and have been playing in bands since I was 15, I'm 42 now and I got tired.
Thanks again for everyone's help !!
Buy either the Redding or Forester FL bushing dies and do not look back. FL size every time. That is as simple and effective every time.
However, take care to learn how to set them up so you get minimal bump as mentioned. That routinely differs from the die manufacturers written instructions.
Once you get some experience and are willing to try other things or are after more control of things, you can venture into more detailed methods when you get a custom barrel and chamber.
If you have a reloading die for you caliber just disassemble your seating die and take the part that fits the shoulder of your brass and put it over a fire formed brass and measure the brass and the die part together, then measure the die part separately and subtract that measurement from the first measurement and you will have your chamber length. I was going to buy the special checking equipment when one day it occurred to me that my die already had what I needed to measure chamber length. I would mention this to the die manufacturers but I don't think they want to let people know they don't need to buy their special measuring equipment.
