full length sizing dies

[fatjake]

Basic full length resizing die.

Is forster that much better than a basic rcbs full length sizing die or at that point am I splitting hairs

 

[dsculley]

I don't have any Forster, but as I understand it the advantage of the Forster die is that the case neck is held in place as the expander button starts in the neck, providing less run out. Many people on here get the Forster decapper & expander button for their RCBS dies. I believe the decapping stem is still in the flash hole as the expander enters the neck as well, again assisting with concentricity. For a small fee, you can send Forster some fire-formed brass and they will custom hone the die for your application.

I am sure others will chime in, but that is my understanding.

 

[bigedp51]

Basic full length resizing die.

Is forster that much better than a basic rcbs full length sizing die or at that point am I splitting hairs

The Forster full length benchrest dies with the high mounted floating expander are the best thing since sliced bread. The Forster high mounted floating expander and spindle assembly greatly reduces neck runout.

The case neck is held and centered in the neck of the die when the expander enters the case neck. Meaning the expander can not pull the case neck off center and induce neck runout.NOTE, the Redding and Forster benchrest seating dies are the exact same design, and the Forster dies are cheaper

Below I equipped all my older RCBS dies with the Forster expander and spindle assembly. The RCBS expander on the left is raised as far as it will move and will still induce neck runout.

Below I added a modified Forster expander and spindle assembly to my Redding dies. IThe spindle spindle had to be cut shorter and a rubber o-ring was added under the lock ring. The o-ring allows the spindle to float and self center. On top of this you are not dragging the much "longer" Redding expander through the case neck.

A added benefit of the Forster dies, if you have any semi-auto rifles like a M1A or AR15 the case rims will get dinged up. These dings in the case rim will cause the case to tilt in the shell holder on the down stroke of the ram and induce neck runout with a normal die.

Bottom line, the Forster high mounted expander design greatly reduces neck runout. And no matter how dinged up your case rims are the case can not tilt in the shell holder because the case neck is held and centered in the neck of the die.

On top of this Forster dies can be sent back to the factory and Forster will hone the neck of the die to your desired diameter. The Forster full length dies will produce "less" neck runout than a bushing die in a standard SAAMI chamber.

FL Bushing Dies vs. Honed FL Dies

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/fl-bushing-dies-vs-honed-fl-dies/

Also Redding and Forster benchrest seating dies can correct neck runout slightly.The link below is in Adobe pdf format, meaning you need Adobe Acrobat to read this full link.

Reloading: Seating Die Runout Seating Die Induced Runout -
A Comparison by Germán A. Salazar

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjsyonB-OLRAhXHOSYKHZSSCcoQFggaMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Freloading.cc%2Fforum%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D8532%26d%3D1425564920&usg=AFQjCNEWbAvlft5hI_jioGKFvXlZelLjzw&bvm=bv.145063293,d.eWE&cad=rja

The Rankings And now, the moment you've been waiting for...

#1 - Redding Competition Seating Die (sliding sleeve type, threaded die) The Redding, which I expected to finish high, did what I thought couldn't be done - it produced rounds with an average runout that was less than the average case neck runout of the brass used. In none of the ten rounds loaded did the Redding increase the runout; it either held exactly the same or it decreased. The Redding, with an Average Runout Change of -0.0003" is the winner. The negative sign, of course, indicates a reduction in runout.

NOTE, the Redding and Forster benchrest seating dies are the exact same design, and the Forster dies are cheaper

 

[fatjake]

bigedp51


so you prefer the redding over the forster

 

[el matador]

I've noticed on a few of the cheaper die sets (Hornady, RCBS) that the tolerances are not that great. If you study the SAAMI drawings for a particular cartridge you'll notice that the min. chamber and max. cartridge dimensions are just a few thousandths different. But each of those dimensions has a tolerance of maybe 6-8 thousandths. Take a factory rifle that is .005" over the min. chamber and a sizing die thats .005" under the cartridge max. and now you're working your brass a heck of a lot. When using a rifle with a match grade chamber and quality dies such as Redding or Forster you'll be moving the brass a lot less. In my opinion Redding dies are the best off the shelf and Forster are not far behind. I do like the Forster expander setup better than Redding's however.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Go with Forster, and never look back

Gary

 

[bigedp51]

bigedp51


so you prefer the redding over the forster

All my high end seating dies are Forster.

And as I stated before the Forster and Redding benchrest seating dies are the exact same type design. "AND" the Forster dies are cheaper than the Redding.

I tested seven different type manufactures dies in .223 and the Forster full length benchrest die produced the least neck runout. And neck sizing bushing dies produced the most neck runout.

Also at the Whidden custom die website they tell you that non-bushing full length dies produce the most concentric cases. And its the high mounted floating expander in the Forster dies that makes these dies superior to other dies.

NOTE, when you reduce the neck diameter .004 or more with a bushing die it will induce neck runout. This is because the bushing floats and can move side to side and even tilt when reducing the neck diameter. This is why you are told to reduce the neck diameter in two steps if reducing the diameter .004 or more. Bushing dies work best with tight neck chambers with neck turned brass. And in a SAAMI chamber the average case neck will need to be reduced .006 or more in diameter.

 

[Bullet bumper]

Here's a thought why not try and get away from using expander balls ?
If it's not specifically needed then why not try a newer system .
I have not used them on most of my cartridges since the lee collet die came out and do not miss them at all.

 

[bigedp51]

Here's a thought why not try and get away from using expander balls ?
If it's not specifically needed then why not try a newer system .
I have not used them on most of my cartridges since the lee collet die came out and do not miss them at all.

I will never understand why so many people think using a expander is the end of the world.

Even with Redding bushing dies with unturned necks Redding recommends using a expander .001 to .002 smaller than bullet diameter.

And if you just use dry graphite to lube the inside of the case necks you will greatly reduce expander drag. On top of this if you wet tumble with stainless steel media you will remove all the carbon inside the case neck. And graphite is nothing more than powdered "CARBON" and the expander will smear the powdered graphite (carbon) back on the inside of the case neck.

Bottom line, the average shooter with a off the shelf factory rifle will be just fine with a Forster full length benchrest die. And if the neck is reduced too much in diameter Forster will hone the neck of your die for $10.00 plus shipping. And then you only size the case once instead of using a body die and the Lee collet die and sizing the case twice.

 

[Bullet bumper]

No one said the end of the World just you . You are the reactionary not me.
Use whatever you want but I know what works best for me and gives me long case life and good accuracy .
You show your ignorance of what the dies actually do to the cases . Sizing twice with dies mentioned is doing less work hardening than once with an expander ball and far easier to control sizing amounts also .

 

[bigedp51]

No one said the end of the World just you . You are the reactionary not me.
Use whatever you want but I know what works best for me and gives me long case life and good accuracy .
You show your ignorance of what the dies actually do to the cases . Sizing twice with dies mentioned is doing less work hardening than once with an expander ball and far easier to control sizing amounts also .

Actually I have many type gauges to measure my cases and know how much the dies work the brass.

And far as my "ignorance of what the dies actually do to the cases" below are just some of the .223 dies I tested. And the expander in my Forster .223 full length die only works the neck .003 with Lake City brass. And this is nothing compared to how much the neck expands in a standard SAAMI chamber when fired.

And far too many people do not even know how much their dies size the body and neck of their cases. Case neck thickness, neck diameter of the die and expander diameter govern how much the die works the brass.

And again using a expander is not the end of the world, and a expander is included with Redding bushing dies to make the inside of the neck uniform with unturned brass.

Below is from the Whidden custom die website about their expander kits.

The Whidden Gunworks Expander Balls typically allow the shooter the opportunity to adjust the neck tension from .001″ to .005″. The Expander Ball Kit comes with five Expander Balls. Each kit includes an Expander of the chosen caliber and decreases in size by .001″. Example: If an Expander Ball Kit for .243 caliber is ordered, the kit would include Expander Ball sizes .243, .242, .241, .240 and .239.

If you like using the Lee collet die and sizing your cases twice then good for you. I just can't make myself like using the Lee collet die and I have several gathering dust. And the Forster die below produces the least amount of neck runout of any of the dies I tested.

 

[fatjake]

I use a full length die set because it's easy for me, that's what I'm comfortable with and I've had good success with them

 

[gohring3006]

Lee collet and Redding body die for me with the exception of 338 Lapua. For that I use a RCBS FL bushing die without the expander.
With never using the Forrester die, I do know, no matter what or how much lube I used on standard FL dies with the expander I would get severe runout.
I have polished expander balls and pre lubed necks with graphite and imperial wax, it didn't help. I even tried moving the press ram slow vs. fast nothing worked as good as the collet die and the bushing die.

 

[Laelkhunter]

I reload mostly .340 Weatherby. I removed the expander button that came with the .340 Hornady dies, and replaced with the .30 cal button from the .300 Weatherby, and am happy with the results. It seemed the expander button for the .340 was stretching the brass neck requiring more trimming when I was lowering the case out of the die when resizing. The button would get kinda stuck when I was trying to remove it from the case, requiring a little more force to remove it.
The smaller button works for me, your experiences might be difference.