FINALLY! After-Market Iron Sights for the Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzle Loader!

Oodalink

New Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
4
There should be a Buyer Beware disclaimer!! If you plan on buying a Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzle Loader, and you plan on shooting iron/open sights, you may not wish to purchase the model 86960 with the Bell and Carlson stock. If you live and hunt in Colorado or Utah where it is against the law to hunt with a muzzle loader using any magnifying optics or sight system other than iron sights (or 1x scopes in Utah), this model may not be for you. I opted for the Bell and Carlson stock as a more weatherproof, lighter option (model #86960) after reading several product specs stating both models came with iron sights.

This model (#86960) does NOT come with iron sights (regardless of what ANY website or distributor advertises).

Simple solution right?! Just order/buy the sights designed for the sister model #86950! Well, after hours and hours of research with Remington Customer service, I found that the rear sight on the model 86950 is a standard Williams WGRS-700 peep sight item #1451 retailing for approximately $39.95 from Williams Gun Sight Co. HOWEVER, the front sight on the rifle cannot be obtained by order... PERIOD!! Remington Customer Service Reps and I were BOTH educated on this new weapon. The front sight on the #86950 has three part numbers. The ramp #F28512; the sight post #F201985; and ramp screws (2) #F28505. The ramp screws can be obtained most anywhere using this part number. The dovetail HIGH sight post can be found but at limited locations on the web. HOWEVER, the ramp is a custom machined part designed for the Remington 700 Safari .458 Rem Mag rifle which comes from Remington's custom shop. Per Remington Customer Service, these parts are NOT AVAILABLE to the public and the weapon must be sent to Remington to be purchased and installed. If you want the model #86960, and you want to use Remington iron sights, plan on paying another $100-$150 to use iron sights AFTER you purchase the rifle! (and be prepared that the sights may not work with the B&C stock!)

Now, here's the rub! Remington offers both the laminated stock (#86950) and the Bell and Carlson stock (#86960) on this rifle. Remington advised (after weeks of constant phone calls by yours truly) that the weapon was test fired after fitting the Bell and Carlson stock, only to find out that the Bell and Carlson stock has an higher comb than the laminated stock, WHICH PLACES THE SIGHT PLANE TOO HIGH FOR THE REMINGTON IRON SIGHTS, making the Remington iron sights unusable on the model #86960! Remington decided to simply replace the iron sights with Weaver bases rather than spend additional money in R&D for a second iron sight system for this specific model.

After learning all of this, I contacted Williams Gun Sight, the manufacturer of the rear peep sight for the model #86950. All the measurements were provided to WGS, and after a trial run of their tallest sight package, they were unable to provide an iron sight system that worked with the model #86960.

I refused to give up and replace my model #86960 just so I could hunt in Colorado. After searching for more than a year, I came across XS Sights Co. based in Ft. Worth Texas. I reviewed products on their website and gave them a call. After spending a half an hour with XS Sight Tech William Cobb he provided me with a tall, weaver-mounted ghost ring mount (rear sight) to obtain the height I needed, and a tall front sight base with several test posts for sighting in. (I was able to use the rear Weaver mount supplied by Remington with the #86960). After only a few rounds, I was able to determine the total front sight height had to be almost exactly 1 inch high (.340 sight base height and .650 front post height).

XS Sights provided me with a .650 high front dovetail post and now the rifle is no longer a very expensive paper weight and is PERFECT for hunting in Colorado or Utah!

The XS sights are very well made. They are milled out of solid steel stock and professionally finished.

The sights required for the Remington UML #86960 are specifically:

-Tall Weaver Backup ghost Ring, part #WB-2001N-T
-#6 x .605 C to C .39 R .340 H - Front Base, part #12-2031A-039-1
-3/8 Dovetail Trapper Center Dovetail White Stripe Front Post- .650 H, part # 11-2072C-650-2

Cost for these sight parts totals $140 including shipping.

I hope this helps those who require iron sights on their #86960 but have yet to find any!
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lilharcher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
845
Location
So Cal
FYI - you can use magnified scopes in Utah during ML season.

But great write-up regardless.
 

lilharcher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
845
Location
So Cal
Joel,
My Brother's UML shoots great with 95.7 gr (weight) of blackhorn 209, easily .75 MOA out to 200 (haven't shot it further).

BTW - still waiting on a Curtis L/A Magnum.....been sitting on all parts for last 6-months......holding out hope.
 

Joel Russo

Official LRH Sponsor
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
3,390
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Joel,
My Brother's UML shoots great with 95.7 gr (weight) of blackhorn 209, easily .75 MOA out to 200 (haven't shot it further).

BTW - still waiting on a Curtis L/A Magnum.....been sitting on all parts for last 6-months......holding out hope.
Don’t lose hope... we’re in production of the LA mag actions..

What bullet is he shooting?
 

Salcha hunter

New Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
1
There should be a Buyer Beware disclaimer!! If you plan on buying a Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzle Loader, and you plan on shooting iron/open sights, you may not wish to purchase the model 86960 with the Bell and Carlson stock. If you live and hunt in Colorado or Utah where it is against the law to hunt with a muzzle loader using any magnifying optics or sight system other than iron sights (or 1x scopes in Utah), this model may not be for you. I opted for the Bell and Carlson stock as a more weatherproof, lighter option (model #86960) after reading several product specs stating both models came with iron sights.

This model (#86960) does NOT come with iron sights (regardless of what ANY website or distributor advertises).

Simple solution right?! Just order/buy the sights designed for the sister model #86950! Well, after hours and hours of research with Remington Customer service, I found that the rear sight on the model 86950 is a standard Williams WGRS-700 peep sight item #1451 retailing for approximately $39.95 from Williams Gun Sight Co. HOWEVER, the front sight on the rifle cannot be obtained by order... PERIOD!! Remington Customer Service Reps and I were BOTH educated on this new weapon. The front sight on the #86950 has three part numbers. The ramp #F28512; the sight post #F201985; and ramp screws (2) #F28505. The ramp screws can be obtained most anywhere using this part number. The dovetail HIGH sight post can be found but at limited locations on the web. HOWEVER, the ramp is a custom machined part designed for the Remington 700 Safari .458 Rem Mag rifle which comes from Remington's custom shop. Per Remington Customer Service, these parts are NOT AVAILABLE to the public and the weapon must be sent to Remington to be purchased and installed. If you want the model #86960, and you want to use Remington iron sights, plan on paying another $100-$150 to use iron sights AFTER you purchase the rifle! (and be prepared that the sights may not work with the B&C stock!)

Now, here's the rub! Remington offers both the laminated stock (#86950) and the Bell and Carlson stock (#86960) on this rifle. Remington advised (after weeks of constant phone calls by yours truly) that the weapon was test fired after fitting the Bell and Carlson stock, only to find out that the Bell and Carlson stock has an higher comb than the laminated stock, WHICH PLACES THE SIGHT PLANE TOO HIGH FOR THE REMINGTON IRON SIGHTS, making the Remington iron sights unusable on the model #86960! Remington decided to simply replace the iron sights with Weaver bases rather than spend additional money in R&D for a second iron sight system for this specific model.

After learning all of this, I contacted Williams Gun Sight, the manufacturer of the rear peep sight for the model #86950. All the measurements were provided to WGS, and after a trial run of their tallest sight package, they were unable to provide an iron sight system that worked with the model #86960.

I refused to give up and replace my model #86960 just so I could hunt in Colorado. After searching for more than a year, I came across XS Sights Co. based in Ft. Worth Texas. I reviewed products on their website and gave them a call. After spending a half an hour with XS Sight Tech William Cobb he provided me with a tall, weaver-mounted ghost ring mount (rear sight) to obtain the height I needed, and a tall front sight base with several test posts for sighting in. (I was able to use the rear Weaver mount supplied by Remington with the #86960). After only a few rounds, I was able to determine the total front sight height had to be almost exactly 1 inch high (.340 sight base height and .650 front post height).

XS Sights provided me with a .650 high front dovetail post and now the rifle is no longer a very expensive paper weight and is PERFECT for hunting in Colorado or Utah!

The XS sights are very well made. They are milled out of solid steel stock and professionally finished.

The sights required for the Remington UML #86960 are specifically:

-Tall Weaver Backup ghost Ring, part #WB-2001N-T
-#6 x .605 C to C .39 R .340 H - Front Base, part #12-2031A-039-1
-3/8 Dovetail Trapper Center Dovetail White Stripe Front Post- .650 H, part # 11-2072C-650-2

Cost for these sight parts totals $140 including shipping.

I hope this helps those who require iron sights on their #86960 but have yet to find any!
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Rob,

I can’t thank you enough for the well written article and extensive research. I had a major panic attack after purchasing the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader with Bell and Carlson stock. I just ordered the same set up. Thanks for including
Pictures of the part numbers- so helpful. Have a great Holiday,

Brad
 

Oodalink

New Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
4
Rob,

I can’t thank you enough for the well written article and extensive research. I had a major panic attack after purchasing the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader with Bell and Carlson stock. I just ordered the same set up. Thanks for including
Pictures of the part numbers- so helpful. Have a great Holiday,

Brad
Glad to help! Good luck, and if you decide to try out the 200gr max load, make sure you get a well-fitted mouth piece first! It's a teeth-rattler!!
 

ENCORE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
1,034
Location
Near a lake with no fish
Joel,
My Brother's UML shoots great with 95.7 gr (weight) of blackhorn 209, easily .75 MOA out to 200 (haven't shot it further).

BTW - still waiting on a Curtis L/A Magnum.....been sitting on all parts for last 6-months......holding out hope.
Find a range and STRETCH that thing out ;) 200yds is a chip shot.
 

Rum River

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
52
Thanks very much for the sight research. I didn't know I'd dodged a bullet buying the laminate stock model. I haven't shot mine with Blackhorn yet, but looking forward to trying the bullet Lilharcher mentioned.
 

jheilman

Active Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Messages
29
Glad to help! Good luck, and if you decide to try out the 200gr max load, make sure you get a well-fitted mouth piece first! It's a teeth-rattler!!
Very good information, I fell victim to the RUM with the BC stock twice. One for me and the other for my son, started off with the See-All sight. Good sight for some applications but after one Colorado Mule deer hunt we realized it wasn't for us. Our guns are in and out of the saddle scabbard a lot, and Id say its only good for 150-200 yards tops. But as usual it was getting late in the year and not enough time to start over finding a different sight.
Only thing Id like to do different than you did is use a Globe sight for the front, like the Lyman Target Globe. Did you consider this at all?
Thanks so much for all the great information as I've been going a bunch of research also on this topic. And now it sounds as if Remington really left us hanging out to dry!!!
Id sure like to talk to you about this topic in greater detail, could you give me a call or a text when you get a chance? 701-400-0966 Jeff
 
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