Custom dies for a wildcat cartridge, where to & what to buy?

[Alibiiv]

I've searched the forums for an answer to this question, however I cannot seem to find the right answer. I am quite certain that I have posted this question in another thread, however cannot find that thread!? Many of the replies in the threads have said that they are "tagging in" the thread because they have the same question/s. And....many have said that they wished they had asked more questions before they bought when they first started out; I've found it's expensive to start out. I plan on whitetail deer hunting in open farm areas, so long distance hunting (for me); 300-500/600 yards and getting best performance out of the rifle at the range at 300 yards. I think a good, accurate hunting rifle would be good enough to do what I want, however I wanted something better. So.......now with my question/s.

I'm about to make a purchase of a set of custom dies for a .270 Ackley Improved that I just had built. I'd like to add that there were two rifles, Ruger 77s, built at the same time, with the same barrel maker (Lilja), with the same reamer, by the same gunsmith. I am hoping to be able to use the same sizing die for both rifles. I'm pretty certain about the Whidden hydroform dies, but uncertain about where to go from there. I've read a lot about Redding, and Forster, they too seem to have a good reputation. I plan on neck turning, have purchased a set up for the Forster Original trimmer. I know that there are other neck turning tools, however felt that I already had the Forster tool and took advantage of it. If it turns out that I don't like the Forster neck turner I'll pick up one of the other tools down the line; K&M, Sinclair. With turning the necks I suspect that a bushing die is on the punch list of dies to purchase. I would like to get a seating die that has a sliding bushing with a micrometer on it. It almost appears that to get total accuracy out of dies you have to take the best out of all three manufacturers that I've mentioned. I suspect that there's going to be a number of opinions, I appreciate the input.

 

[Doublezranch]

I certainly do not want to change your mind because it sounds like you've done some really good research. I have 3 sets (soon to be 4) custom die sets made by Hornady. The head engineer Ben Syring will make you whatever you want in less than 12 weeks. I have FL, Bushing, Neck Bushing and Seater dies. I am very impressed with the tolerances and the way these perform. Certainly a player in the game that gets overlooked. There is information on their website under custom dies. Congratulations on your builds.

Jayson

 

[SealT5]

All three die makers you've listed will make you a die based off of 3 fired cases from your rifle with a decent lead time. I'm going to recommend another option. Newlon Precision Custom die blanks.

They offer both FL Bushing and seating die blanks. With the seating blank have your smith simply chamber the die with the reamer used on your barrels. This gives you a seating die matched to your chamber

The FL die is short chambered approximately .004" by your smith using the same reamer. You then send it to company that will heat treat the die. After the hardening process the die shrinks giving you minimal sizing on the body and a die that creates perfect brass for your chamber. Fireball Heat Treating has a 1-2 day turn around time.

If your smith headspaced the two rifles the same then you will be able to use the same die and shell holder for both rifles. If not you may need the Redding competition shellholders.

Joe

 

[Jeffrey Van Zandt]

have had this Co do some n the past they do outstanding work. https://www.whiddengunworks.com/custom-reloading-dies/

 

[redleg1013]

If you're feeling saucy go with Warner Tools...

 

[Wild Monkey]

If you have not purchased the Hydro Dies Yet, you might want to skip them. Hydro Forming can be Black Magic for most, inconsistent and expensive, with a high loss rate. If it's indeed an "A.I.", Fire forming would be best. IMO

 

[Alibiiv]

If you're feeling saucy go with Warner Tools...

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a lot of saucy, $598-650. They look like premium dies, and....I like that they are using the 1 1/4 inch thread on them. I've had my Rockchucker for 20+ years and have never taken the thread adapter out of it. Will have to think on that one a bit. Thank you for the name of the company, it's great to get information on products and companies that I didn't know existed.

 

[Edd]

For the resize die, I would either send some fired brass to Hornady and have them make it or I would order a resize reamer and have your Gunsmith make it from the die blank of your choice.

For the seater, I would have your Gunsmith make it using the same reamer he used for chambering and a Wilson die blank.

 

[osok-1k]

In the old days we would make a casting of the chamber using Cerosafe, I still like to do this since I have a true replica of the chamber. Ideally the chamber should exactly replicate the reamer but this doesn't always happen and a chamber cast provides exact dimensions of the actual chamber. If it were me, I would turn the necks, FL size and send three to Redding, Forster or Whidden, you can specify the neck tension and shoulder bump, creating very consistent brass. Looking at the meplat in your photo, you may want to invest in a meplat trimmer / bullet pointer from Whidden as well, that's the first segment of the bullet that is influenced by air and should be consistent from bullet to bullet for anything long range. Whidden also makes bullet seater stems for specific profiles if you want to go that far tailoring everything to your specific rifle.For some odd reason I've never been a fan of 270 Win or 30-06 but love the 280 and it's AI variant, however I came upon a deal in an older Rem 700 in 270. It happens to be the tightest, best timed Remington I've seen in a long time. After cutting and truing the crown and a few other tweaks it shoots Remington green box 130's 3/4 MOA. I read an article by Ron Spomer on the 270 which has influenced my thinking. https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/shooting/ballistics/cartridges/270-winchester/ I think I'll keep this one

 

[BountyHunter]

Neil Jones makes custom dies. Send reamer print to the big die makers and they can make a set

 

[TxPhred]

I've searched the forums for an answer to this question, however I cannot seem to find the right answer. I am quite certain that I have posted this question in another thread, however cannot find that thread!? Many of the replies in the threads have said that they are "tagging in" the thread because they have the same question/s. And....many have said that they wished they had asked more questions before they bought when they first started out; I've found it's expensive to start out. I plan on whitetail deer hunting in open farm areas, so long distance hunting (for me); 300-500/600 yards and getting best performance out of the rifle at the range at 300 yards. I think a good, accurate hunting rifle would be good enough to do what I want, however I wanted something better. So.......now with my question/s.

I'm about to make a purchase of a set of custom dies for a .270 Ackley Improved that I just had built. I'd like to add that there were two rifles, Ruger 77s, built at the same time, with the same barrel maker (Lilja), with the same reamer, by the same gunsmith. I am hoping to be able to use the same sizing die for both rifles. I'm pretty certain about the Whidden hydroform dies, but uncertain about where to go from there. I've read a lot about Redding, and Forster, they too seem to have a good reputation. I plan on neck turning, have purchased a set up for the Forster Original trimmer. I know that there are other neck turning tools, however felt that I already had the Forster tool and took advantage of it. If it turns out that I don't like the Forster neck turner I'll pick up one of the other tools down the line; K&M, Sinclair. With turning the necks I suspect that a bushing die is on the punch list of dies to purchase. I would like to get a seating die that has a sliding bushing with a micrometer on it. It almost appears that to get total accuracy out of dies you have to take the best out of all three manufacturers that I've mentioned. I suspect that there's going to be a number of opinions, I appreciate the input.

I would continue speaking to Whidden about custom dies, with three fired cases he can make it happen for you, he does not do any radius end shoulder dies (ala Weatherby). Top quality stuff. This would make them custom for your chamber.

 

[Alibiiv]

If you have not purchased the Hydro Dies Yet, you might want to skip them. Hydro Forming can be Black Magic for most, inconsistent and expensive, with a high loss rate. If it's indeed an "A.I.", Fire forming would be best. IMO

No I haven't bought the hydro forming dies, it has been a question that I have been kicking around. One minute I am thinking that I want to get them, right now I am going to be fire forming the brass to make the dies.

Today I had a chance to set the Forster neck turning tool up, I had my concerns however, it did a great job. Concentricity was withing a .0005 thousandths, wall thickness was around .013 thousandths. I think that the pilot could have been a bit tighter, the case slipped over the pilot relatively easy.

 

[Alibiiv]

In the old days we would make a casting of the chamber using Cerosafe, I still like to do this since I have a true replica of the chamber. Ideally the chamber should exactly replicate the reamer but this doesn't always happen and a chamber cast provides exact dimensions of the actual chamber. If it were me, I would turn the necks, FL size and send three to Redding, Forster or Whidden, you can specify the neck tension and shoulder bump, creating very consistent brass. Looking at the meplat in your photo, you may want to invest in a meplat trimmer / bullet pointer from Whidden as well, that's the first segment of the bullet that is influenced by air and should be consistent from bullet to bullet for anything long range. Whidden also makes bullet seater stems for specific profiles if you want to go that far tailoring everything to your specific rifle.For some odd reason I've never been a fan of 270 Win or 30-06 but love the 280 and it's AI variant, however I came upon a deal in an older Rem 700 in 270. It happens to be the tightest, best timed Remington I've seen in a long time. After cutting and truing the crown and a few other tweaks it shoots Remington green box 130's 3/4 MOA. I read an article by Ron Spomer on the 270 which has influenced my thinking. https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/shooting/ballistics/cartridges/270-winchester/ I think I'll keep this one

Would you help me out with this. Are you suggesting that I full-length size my .270 Winchester brass, then turn the necks, fire form the brass in the .270 Ackley Improved chamber and then send the fired brass to the die maker? If I do this it will it eliminate the need for a bushing die? My concern is turning the necks when the brass is .270 Winchester, and then fire-forming the brass in the .270 AI chamber, isn't the datum line where the neck meets the shoulder going to change? I am asking the question because I cannot find any data or information on the .270 AI except for one drawing that is so small in print that I cannot read the print. My understanding is that all of the dimensions stay constant, except that the shoulder is pushed out to 40` and the sides of the case are straightened out. I called my gunsmith in an attempt to get a blueprint of the reamer, he said that he does not have one. There's not a whole lot of information out there on this cartridge. I too like the .280 AI, it's just that I wanted something unique and a wildcat to play with.