Bullet cold weld to brass, real or myth?

[Gunpowder]

I've experienced this cold weld first hand when I broke down some 20 year old 222 hand loaded ammo I'd made with new brass. The bullets were 50 gr Hdy sx, and in one instance I pulled the jacket apart, leaving the bottom of the cup in the case neck.

I would have to assume that I've fired several to many rounds that were fused together, maybe that's the reason for the odd high pressure signs you might get in one round while all the rest look good?

 

[jbs2014]

I am not sure if I mentioned this on another thread. But I think I may have barely avoided a more dangerous encounter with this phenomenon. I had some really old .408 rounds that I had acquired when I first got into the caliber some nine years ago or so. I was reorganizing my reloading room and found them, amongst other things. I shook one back and forth and discovered what I am pretty sure was a really undercharged projection. So I decided to pull them and dispose of all of the components. I have one of the large bullet pullers from CH4D that I attach to my .50 BMG press. I nearly broke the handle off of the press trying to pull those four bullets. They hardly budged an inch. I ended up turning them into the bad round box at our range here.

Here is my question to all of you, had the rounds been fired would it have destroyed the rifle?

I am interested in this cold weld business and its effect as well, I am interested in making about 2000 5.56 rounds ( and others) to store for later. Does the HBN really prevent this? Can HBN work in a semi auto?

Thank you all for your time

 

[bigedp51]

Don't tell anyone but the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit uses Hornady One Shot a dry film lube and makes sure they spray the inside of the case necks. It makes me wonder if this dry film lube would also prevent cold welding.

 

[venatic]

I actually filled primed cases with One Shot and then emptied it out then reloaded and they shot fine. Actually had lower ES than the loads I didn't spray full.
I also loaded 6 rounds with powder that I soaked with One Shot then poured into case. Shot 3 that day they shot fine then kept the other 3 for a few months then fired them and they shot fine.

 

[jbs2014]

I actually filled primed cases with One Shot and then emptied it out then reloaded and they shot fine. Actually had lower ES than the loads I didn't spray full.
I also loaded 6 rounds with powder that I soaked with One Shot then poured into case. Shot 3 that day they shot fine then kept the other 3 for a few months then fired them and they shot fine.

Any change in velocity?

 

[venatic]

No

 

[eschafer]

Picked up a steel ammo box of odds and ends at a garage sale once.... inside were a mix about 50 rounds of factory 30-06 and 7mm mag rounds... (mostly what I thought were Hornady bullets)... I was going to give them to a friend as I don't shoot either caliber, however never did get them to him... in the end, I pulled the bullets and dumped the powder..... I used an RCBS collet puller on a Rock Chucker press.... the bullets were so tightly fused inside the neck of the cases that on many of the rounds I ended up jerking the press handle so hard that I was lifting the end of my bench off the floor... and on numerous occasion, more than one attempt was needed and or I ripped the rim of the case off..... some rounds did look as if some moisture had been inside the box... none the less, glad I tore them down rather than giving them away... can't even imagine an ES and SD from a batch of ammo like that, not to mention the chamber pressures that would have manifested... Weld phenomenon exists... I now lube necks with Redding Dry Lube before seating... I also seat long first then reseat to length prior to shooting.... all this is very new to me as I've only been reloading a short while... another very valuable lesson along my journey. ....

 

[Laelkhunter]

I am not sure if I mentioned this on another thread. But I think I may have barely avoided a more dangerous encounter with this phenomenon. I had some really old .408 rounds that I had acquired when I first got into the caliber some nine years ago or so. I was reorganizing my reloading room and found them, amongst other things. I shook one back and forth and discovered what I am pretty sure was a really undercharged projection. So I decided to pull them and dispose of all of the components. I have one of the large bullet pullers from CH4D that I attach to my .50 BMG press. I nearly broke the handle off of the press trying to pull those four bullets. They hardly budged an inch. I ended up turning them into the bad round box at our range here.

Here is my question to all of you, had the rounds been fired would it have destroyed the rifle?

I am interested in this cold weld business and its effect as well, I am interested in making about 2000 5.56 rounds ( and others) to store for later. Does the HBN really prevent this? Can HBN work in a semi auto?

Thank you all for your time

If you (or anyone else) encounters bullets that are stubborn to remove from the cases, run them up into the seating die with the seating stem screwed in a little extra turn or two. This will break the bond, and push the bullet a couple thousandths in further, but will be much easier to remove with a bullet puller.
Also, not sure if anyone else mentioned that factory loads sit on the store shelves for years sometimes, and I don't recall anyone posting problems with them. Maybe unless it is with fired brass only that can cold-weld with the bullet.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Picked up a steel ammo box of odds and ends at a garage sale once.... inside were a mix about 50 rounds of factory 30-06 and 7mm mag rounds... (mostly what I thought were Hornady bullets)... I was going to give them to a friend as I don't shoot either caliber, however never did get them to him... in the end, I pulled the bullets and dumped the powder..... I used an RCBS collet puller on a Rock Chucker press.... the bullets were so tightly fused inside the neck of the cases that on many of the rounds I ended up jerking the press handle so hard that I was lifting the end of my bench off the floor... and on numerous occasion, more than one attempt was needed and or I ripped the rim of the case off..... some rounds did look as if some moisture had been inside the box... none the less, glad I tore them down rather than giving them away... can't even imagine an ES and SD from a batch of ammo like that, not to mention the chamber pressures that would have manifested... Weld phenomenon exists... I now lube necks with Redding Dry Lube before seating... I also seat long first then reseat to length prior to shooting.... all this is very new to me as I've only been reloading a short while... another very valuable lesson along my journey. ....

See my reply (#36) for an easier way to remove the bullets from those cases.

 

[eschafer]

See my reply (#36) for an easier way to remove the bullets from those cases.

yes, thanks..... at that time in my "journey", seating them further before pulling them just hadn't occurred to me...

 

[CaptnC]

I just broken some 7mm Remington Magnum ammo that I had loaded about 15 years ago. I only have a .30 and 6.5mm collets. I hoped they wouldn't slip in the .30 collet.

They all pulled easily. I have used graphite in the necks since I was a kid loading for the family back in the late 70's. About a month ago I tried to pull some bullets from some 6.5 Creedmoor range brass. There was 4 cases, two the bullets pulled easily with my collet puller. But the other two had to have the inertia puller to break the bullets loose.

I am going to keep that tip in mind the next time I need one broken loose...never thought about seating the bullet a bit deeper first.

 

[LoneTraveler]

Setting the seating die down a few thousands and seating the bullet deeper has been around a long time in military competition. Military ammo being sealed with a lacquer like compound at the primer and bullet case mouth, Even match ammo. Snipers are issued match ammo in combat zones.
In the winter 1964-65 I was captain of the Ft Dix small bore team. They was preparing for the service rifle matches to start. They was in the armors area preparing ammo. They seated all the bullets a few thousands deeper to break the sealer bond. They even pulled the bullets from some of the cases and dumped the powder and resized the case neck and weighed the powder, Refilled the case and seated the bullet. Some boxes of ammo had the rifle Serial No. wrote on the boxes and in neat stacks.
Their thought was if you can gain 1 point or V for each shooter on a 4 man team means the difference between 1st place and a 3 way tie for 4th place in a match.

The Police Armors class I went to had a section they taught on ammo. Many factory ammos and military ammo does not use a tight neck tension on the case, But use a crimp to hold the bullet tight in the case. Real tight neck tension will cause necks to split or break off and can cause jamming of Semi/Full auto firearms.

There would be no mechanical weld of the bullet to the case, But put a bullet and case in contact with each other and add sweat, powder residue, rain or snow a chemical reaction could be a Galvanic reaction to bind them to each other.

When I worked as a wildlife officer on the eastern USA divide we periodically checked the PH of rain and snow, I have seen readings of 2.8 on a scale where 7.0 was neutral.

If ammo was stored in a hardware store with fertilizers, lime, sprays, and cleaning solvents vapor hard to tell what could or would happen to the ammo. Chrome tanned leather in a ammo belt or case can turn the green booger loose on ammo too, And cause problems.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

Seat all ammo longer if its going to set over a month or so. Then reseat deeper to desired length to break any weld that occur's when ready to shoot.

 

[jbs2014]

Seat all ammo longer if its going to set over a month or so. Then reseat deeper to desired length to break any weld that occur's when ready to shoot.

I like that plowshares quote