Boone and Crocket club so annoying!!

[darrindlh]

I am tired of the Boone and Crocket club posting longrange hunting ethic statements and having an open debate on Facebook. There position is that it is not ethical. It is so annoying because most hunters here on this sight are more ethical at taking game at 700 yrd than most hunters at 150. I ticks me off trying to divide hunters. LAY OFF !! I'm done with the Boone and Crocket club. I could not careless if they ever accept my trophies if I'm lucky enough to take a record book animal. Okay I'm done ranting.

Darrin

 

[mtwarych]

One of the many definitions of ethics is what one does when others aren't watching.
I won't shoot at a live creature beyond 500 yards simply because I am not practiced enough nor skilled enough to ensure I do it right.

I completely agree with the OP about the B&C club taking a stand that divides the hunting group. The B&C club should know better than that.

I see things everyday that I am not comfortable with but I won't make an issue simply because what is being done is legal and really has no effect on me.

I will be the judge, jury and executioner if I witness something that is not legal. I have seen people mortaring rounds into a herd of elk from unbelievable yardage and not then following up on the shots. I turned the hunting party in but nothing could be done about the seven wounded cow elk and the three carcasses that were found days later. (Deer point lookout, Darby MT 2010 general season.)

I was a hunter safety instructor and I fully believe in education not regulation. The long range hunters really need to inform the public about the how and why the group does what it does.
The long rangers need to let the B&C and other judgement passing groups to learn before passing opinions that may or may not be true.

Also being a bowhunter, I know what the long rangers are going through because the bowhunters went through the same thing from the 70's through the eighties and the long rangers need to become far better at informing the public than just saying what we do is ethical and then providing no follow up to that statement.

I don't know the possibilities of the long rangers forming some kind of instructional sight or organization to promote the sport, that is what needs to be done to promote the truth that long rangers know what they are doing and what ever it takes for the general public to understand and believe what you guys and gals are doing is ethical and repeatable with proper training and knowledge.

The ball is in the hands of the long rangers to inform the general public about the sport and change the opinions of the groups that do not support the long range community. If the long range community does support the idea of informing the public and then does it, the non supporters have nothing to stand on and the non supporters have nothing to support the mis-statements. The ball is in your hands. Quit being the martyrs and do something.

 

[darrindlh]

My watch- thank you for your reply. I absolutely agree with you 100%. I think we need to come together and educate others. That is a great idea. Thanks

Darrin

 

[J E Custom]

Distance does not make an ethical hunter. care for the sport and the game does.

Most Long range hunters are far better shots than these Short distance shooters because they have to be and want one shot kills. Most of the short range shooters do so because they cant hit anything beyond 3 or 400 yards and they don't practice precision shooting or simply don't practice at all
(in there minds,They don't have to).

The best way to end the "Ethical" argument is to challenge them to shoot beyond 500 yards (At paper)that wont be injured if the shot is not good They cant say that it's not ethical.

I fought the same battles while bow hunting and don't let the uneducated bother me about my ethics, because I know I am very ethical and sometimes wont take a shot under 100 yards because it is not a good one. As Joel says "Ethics/Character are when no one is watching".

Maybe Len will chime in on this one, He has been fighting this issue since he started this site and could help others deal with the issue.

Being old, when I hear these kind of things I just tell them to put up or shut up.

Ethics are something that cant be said, it has to be lived.

PS: "You cant fix stupid"

J E CUSTOM

 

[Wile E Coyote]

There nothing so far in the thread that I could not say any better. On the point about being divisive of the hunting community, my stance is to consider them as equals, if not worse, than the anti- hunting, anti- gun, anti- anything you do crowd. Being stuck in a state that is a liberal sewer, I have plenty of up close experience with this mind set. b&c (deliberately lower case) thinks and behaves no differently. If for some reason they showed up at my door, they would be treated no differently than a liberal politician... and that's not printable.

Pete

 

[EFR]

This is a tough one for me. There are not a lot of long range shooters in my neck of the woods (Northeast) and a lot of us know each other. The problem with this whole debate is peoples (hunters) perceptions: easy, far, ethical, etc.

Like Pete said, most of the members of this forum can shoot better at 700 yds than the majority of shooters can at 100 yds. The problem is, the plethora of long range TV shows, videos, magazine articles, and computer chat make anyone think they can do it, which they can if they put in the time, effort, and money to do it. But do they?

From what I have seen at public ranges is most hunters (around here) don't. And in most (if not all) of the hunting camps I have shared with guides, they don't either. What upsets me immensely is other hunters watching the videos, reading the articles, and thinking they can do it too. But, they are not putting in the most valuable part: time and practice.

I took my son (13) to Montana last year on a guided elk hunt (could not take him out of school for long enough for DIY). 7 hunters in camp including us. Many topics came up after evening meal. One night, it was how far can you shoot? One hunter, really nice guy (dentist) said he was good to 500 yds. Had a nice Tikka with Swarovski Z5 with the BDC turret. He said he was dialed in to 500 yds. Never shot past 100 yds, but he sent his info to Swarovski and they made him a custom turret. I asked to see his rifle later in the week (i was interested in scope) the scope was so canted I could not believe it. Another gentleman had another Tikka (300wsm) with Nikon scope with their BDC reticle. Same story. He bought the gun, bought 3 boxes of ammo (commented how expensive ammo was) shot 2 boxes to practice, and brought the third box to camp to hunt. 40 practice shots. That's it. He knew the drop of his bullets because he looked it up on the Nikon website. He was ready for 500 yds too. These were two nice guys. I'm quite sure they thought they were doing everything ethical. Meanwhile, my son and I sent hundreds of rounds downrange from 450 (him) to 1000 yds (me) from field conditions. Who is right? Who is wrong?

Personally (which is what all of this is about) I want to extend MY ETHICAL range as far as I can. To that end, I have invested significant amount of time and money on equipment and practice to do that. That being said, I want to close the distance as much as I can to ensure precise shot placement.

Several years ago I read a post on this site from a gentleman in Wyoming. He had taken a nice antelope at 1250 yds +/- if remember correctly. He wrote of how he found the buck, got to within 700 +/- yds, then went back to a hill where he was now 1250+/- yds so that he could make his longest kill shot, to which he did. To be honest, I was a little disappointed. I am pleased for the hunter that he made such a long shot and he tagged a nice animal, but why add 500+/- yds to your shot? The way I look at it, there is so much more that can go wrong adding that extra 500 yds, the animal could possibly be wounded. To him though, I'm sure his actions were perfectly ethical.

As far as long range hunting, I don't encourage it or discourage it. I will continue to stretch my effective range, continue to read here and learn from the experts, and continue to take shots at live game at distances and conditions where I am confident in 100% shot placement, after I get as close as I can. To each his own.

 

[djtjr]

This is a tough one for me. There are not a lot of long range shooters in my neck of the woods (Northeast) and a lot of us know each other. The problem with this whole debate is peoples (hunters) perceptions: easy, far, ethical, etc.

Like Pete said, most of the members of this forum can shoot better at 700 yds than the majority of shooters can at 100 yds. The problem is, the plethora of long range TV shows, videos, magazine articles, and computer chat make anyone think they can do it, which they can if they put in the time, effort, and money to do it. But do they?

From what I have seen at public ranges is most hunters (around here) don't. And in most (if not all) of the hunting camps I have shared with guides, they don't either. What upsets me immensely is other hunters watching the videos, reading the articles, and thinking they can do it too. But, they are not putting in the most valuable part: time and practice.

I took my son (13) to Montana last year on a guided elk hunt (could not take him out of school for long enough for DIY). 7 hunters in camp including us. Many topics came up after evening meal. One night, it was how far can you shoot? One hunter, really nice guy (dentist) said he was good to 500 yds. Had a nice Tikka with Swarovski Z5 with the BDC turret. He said he was dialed in to 500 yds. Never shot past 100 yds, but he sent his info to Swarovski and they made him a custom turret. I asked to see his rifle later in the week (i was interested in scope) the scope was so canted I could not believe it. Another gentleman had another Tikka (300wsm) with Nikon scope with their BDC reticle. Same story. He bought the gun, bought 3 boxes of ammo (commented how expensive ammo was) shot 2 boxes to practice, and brought the third box to camp to hunt. 40 practice shots. That's it. He knew the drop of his bullets because he looked it up on the Nikon website. He was ready for 500 yds too. These were two nice guys. I'm quite sure they thought they were doing everything ethical. Meanwhile, my son and I sent hundreds of rounds downrange from 450 (him) to 1000 yds (me) from field conditions. Who is right? Who is wrong?

Personally (which is what all of this is about) I want to extend MY ETHICAL range as far as I can. To that end, I have invested significant amount of time and money on equipment and practice to do that. That being said, I want to close the distance as much as I can to ensure precise shot placement.

Several years ago I read a post on this site from a gentleman in Wyoming. He had taken a nice antelope at 1250 yds +/- if remember correctly. He wrote of how he found the buck, got to within 700 +/- yds, then went back to a hill where he was now 1250+/- yds so that he could make his longest kill shot, to which he did. To be honest, I was a little disappointed. I am pleased for the hunter that he made such a long shot and he tagged a nice animal, but why add 500+/- yds to your shot? The way I look at it, there is so much more that can go wrong adding that extra 500 yds, the animal could possibly be wounded. To him though, I'm sure his actions were perfectly ethical.

As far as long range hunting, I don't encourage it or discourage it. I will continue to stretch my effective range, continue to read here and learn from the experts, and continue to take shots at live game at distances and conditions where I am confident in 100% shot placement, after I get as close as I can. To each his own.

This is a really well thought out reply. Thanks. as a fellow North East LR guy I have seen the same thing. Someone drops 7000+ on a 1000 yard "system" and has never shot it beyond 100 but knows they good all the way. The marketing done to sell these systems does a good job selling but a real disservice to hunters in the long run. I have done a lot of shooting and its never as easy as chrono a good load and youre set. Variables change chronos are off a bit, Listed BCs are wrong, You really have to play with it all and verify in the field, and you cant do that in a box of bullets.

 

[djtjr]

One last thought though: hunters (within reason) should not attack other hunters. If ethics are there (albeit perhaps a bit different than yours) and things are not flagrantly unethical we should support ourselves not the other way around. I see it all the time, archers don't want cross bows etc... we need to band together more people out there doing it means better odds of it being there for our kids and grand kids. If we fight amongst ourselves all we do is hurt ourselves and help the antis.

 

[Dr. Vette]

This is a really well thought out reply.

I agree. Great job on that one EFR.

I have similar stories to tell about hunters spending money on high dollar systems, sighting them in at 100 yards and then never extending their range. I suspect it happens more than we would like to know.

 

[FearNoWind]

Originally Posted by djtjr
This is a really well thought out reply.

I'm voting for "djtjr" for spokesman.

 

[darrindlh]

Guys thank you all of you for your replays. Everyone of them I agree fully. and Djtrj most defiantly should be the spokesman I second the nomination.

I just don't understand why a hunting organization wants to divide a specific group of people that are already under attack each day. They are suppose to be advocates for hunters right? Or are the lobbyists getting in the way

Darrin

 

[FEENIX]

Sadly, this is not the first and only (won't be last either) post here that B&C have gone after LRH/S.

IMHO, comments like these are better served when posted directly to their site like most of us did sometime last year. We were very well represented; Jeff (BROZ) was all over it the last round and he did an awesome job.

 

[TLC]

Boone and Crocket/Pope and Young are littered with entries that were taken illegally or by non fair chase means. They no longer have the respect of most hunters. I personally know of several entries that did not meet the requirements to be entered into the "books" (illegal). I would not discrace an animal that I harvest by entering it in a so called record book. It no longer has any meaning. Just my .02 worth.

 

[graywolf]

I think what EFR said rings true for a lot of us, and we owe it to the sport to set examples and help those who want to participate in LRH understand what it takes to develop the necessary skills. It's not a matter of watching a tv show and going out and getting a long range rifle and a few boxes of ammo- unfortunately when that happens in the field it can be ugly and it gives the discipline a black eye and the criticism that it will attract is predictable (and justified imo).