Bergers ????

[Lrt307]

Hello all who is hunting with Bergers? I have had a real bad experience this season. The 1st was my 300 rum with 215 on a trophy bull @ 673 yds. Front shoulder shot and lost the elk.

The second was my son with his 270 @ 400 yds front shoulder lost the elk.

I have a buddy who his wife and son both had similar results with 6.5.


what bullets are everyone using for long range and hunting? I am looking real hard @ the ELD X from Hornady. I used to use Barnes and they were excellent bullets but started long range hunting and went to Bergers. I like the Berger bullets but not so much for hunting as of yet.. I lost a big bull with my 7mm 180 a few years back and hit a bull and didnt find it till the next day a few years back..... kind of disquisted in Bergers @ this point.gun)

 

[dok7mm]

Wasn't there, so I can't say exactly where the bullet hit. Four failures, four people, four calibers, and four different bullets. Sounds like you need to try a different aiming point, perhaps the heart/lung area. A front shoulder POA/POI must hit spine or destroy CNS for a DRT result or rupture major artery for a somewhat delayed death. A rear shoulder POA gives you a much larger area that will quickly be lethal or at least, often give you a chance for a follow-up. In any hunting situation, there are too many variables to take a chance. Aim small at the largest vital area. I doubt that the Berger is the root cause of the failures described, but there is a thread on LRH that discusses the "possibility" that a Berger "may" fail if the meplat is closed in manufacturing or in a magazine from rough handling or recoil induced. JMO, a Berger bullet ( used in the right application and placed in the vitals ) is AS or MORE deadly than any bullet you can choose.

 

[D.Camilleri]

A friend of mine in Montana just sent me a text about poor performance from a 140 gr Berger in 6.5 on an antelope. He aimed at the last rib on a quartering away shot. The bullet entered and turned and took out the off side ham. It did kill the antelope, but ruined a lot of meat on a shot that should have ended up in the off side shoulder.

 

[D.Camilleri]

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/berger-hunting-bullets-161424/

 

[jabey9210]

I've been using bergers for years and have yet to have any issues. My elk was 585yrds and my deer was exactly 700 this year with a 7mm 180 grain vld's both one shot. The deer dropped in his tracks, the elk made it maybe 20 or 30 yrds before expiring. My wife's 7mm-08 has taken many deer with 140 vld's and my 243 has taken deer out to 500 yrds with 105 vld's. None have ever required more than one shot, they've all penetrated and the fragmented just like they're supposed to. I do however always check to make sure nothing is obstructing the hollow point.

 

[blackdog]

Based on Broz's experience, I'd say the 215 hybrid makes for damned fine elk medicine! The 180 hybrid out of my .280AI performed perfect on my bighorn last year and the 140 hybrids out of my .260 Remington worked great on a number of antelope.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/comparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/index54.html

 

[Makaira]

Just got back from my elk hunt-shooting 168 bergers in a 300wsm and he(370-375") was dead on the first shot behind the shoulder but then sent one that center punched the chest.Stumbled to the ground.Not long range by anyones standards here but for me 258 yards is stretching it

 

[Lrt307]

Wasn't there, so I can't say exactly where the bullet hit. Four failures, four people, four calibers, and four different bullets. Sounds like you need to try a different aiming point, perhaps the heart/lung area. A front shoulder POA/POI must hit spine or destroy CNS for a DRT result or rupture major artery for a somewhat delayed death. A rear shoulder POA gives you a much larger area that will quickly be lethal or at least, often give you a chance for a follow-up. In any hunting situation, there are too many variables to take a chance. Aim small at the largest vital area. I doubt that the Berger is the root cause of the failures described, but there is a thread on LRH that discusses the "possibility" that a Berger "may" fail if the meplat is closed in manufacturing or in a magazine from rough handling or recoil induced. JMO, a Berger bullet ( used in the right application and placed in the vitals ) is AS or MORE deadly than any bullet you can choose.

The whole reason I went to the shoulder shot was that is where all of my barnes kills were. When I started hunting with Berger I drank the koolaid and aimed for the heart and lungs. Well 7mm 180 hit one lung instead of two and the chase was on. I am not trying to start a d!#& measuring contest just looking to see if there are better options out there.

 

[stomp442]

I too have used Bergers for a lot of years and have yet to lose an animal. I aim for bone and that method has yet to fail me. I figure if the bullet does fail to open I am at least breaking bone and breaking the animal down so that he does not go far. More often than not they go straight down. I have had success with everything Berger from .22 cal all the way through .30s with the .25's and 6.5's performing best.

 

[Barrelnut]

If I were doing shoulder shots at the distances mentioned, in a 300 RUM, I would use a 200 gr Accubond.

 

[Lrt307]

If I were doing shoulder shots at the distances mentioned, in a 300 RUM, I would use a 200 gr Accubond.

I will look @ that bullet. Also very interested in the new ELD X 212 from Hornady. Has anyone tried these or are they available? Thought about Barnes LRX in a 200 grain but the bc is not so great from what I have heard?

 

[dok7mm]

The whole reason I went to the shoulder shot was that is where all of my barnes kills were. When I started hunting with Berger I drank the koolaid and aimed for the heart and lungs. Well 7mm 180 hit one lung instead of two and the chase was on. I am not trying to start a d!#& measuring contest just looking to see if there are better options out there.

Didn't mean to get you mad. JMO, but you didn't seem to be having much luck with front shoulder shots with the Berger, in any caliber. I simple suggested a different POA and how it might give you a better result. I also pointed you to a thread discussing possible reasons it might be something else. As long range hunters, I believe we have a duty to make clean kills and as I stated, there are a lot of variables involved. Bullet performance, for a particular shot, being one of them. I use mostly Bergers and have faith in them. I also use Amax and heavy Accubonds when I need their qualities. You may use whatever you want and I wish you better luck in your future hunts.

 

[Lrt307]

Didn't mean to get you mad. JMO, but you didn't seem to be having much luck with front shoulder shots with the Berger, in any caliber. I simple suggested a different POA and how it might give you a better result. I also pointed you to a thread discussing possible reasons it might be something else. As long range hunters, I believe we have a duty to make clean kills and as I stated, there are a lot of variables involved. Bullet performance, for a particular shot, being one of them. I use mostly Bergers and have faith in them. I also use Amax and heavy Accubonds when I need their qualities. You may use whatever you want and I wish you better luck in your future hunts.

No problem at all. I appreciate the input. I am just frustrated as a hunter and as a marksman for the luck I have personally had. This year tore me up to lose the bull I shot. I havent tried behind the shoulder with a 215. I have an additional cow tag and will give it a try. Thanks everyone for your input just looking for answers????

 

[Pdvdh]

I haven't tried behind the shoulder with a 215. I have an additional cow tag and will give it a try. Thanks everyone for your input just looking for answers????

I'm pretty certain Broz prefers to aim for the crease created where the back of the front shoulder muscle ends. Or said another way, just barely behind the front shoulder muscles. He's reporting very good results with the 215gr Berger Hybrids from 300 Win Mags. And his reporting is based on observation of dozens of elk killed, and many examined during field dressing.

Check your 215gr Hybrid bullets to make sure there's a hole in the copper tip of the bullet (make sure the copper jacket isn't pinched closed) before heading afield. Aim just behind the shoulders on a broadside cow elk - and then report back? Interested in hearing how you fair with this shot placement using this bullet - compared to your shoulder shot elk.

Different bullet construction/composition can cause different bullets to perform best with slightly different shot placement. If your 215gr Hybrid expands on a broadside hit behind the shoulders, I think your cow elk will expire quickly - if not in her tracks.

And... Best Wishes for many elk dinners!