2 questions for everyone. How often do you clean your barrel with a copper remover and if you have a bore scope how clean is clean enough. I noticed accuracy was starting to fall off on my .257 weatherby so I figured I would give it a good cleaning. I recently picked up a borescope and I noticed the barrel looks quite clean except for a 4-5" area near the middle of the barrel still has a fair bit of copper in the lands. Should I clean again and get this copper cleaned out or call that good. I haven't fired it since cleaning to see if accuracy has come back or not.
Barrel cleaning
- Thread starter Poe
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Ultimate test is to shoot it.
We can tell you how our firearms might perform; I doubt anyone can say for sure how your rifle will perform. My WAG is with some copper still showing, it may be more accurate than before but not for long.
Copper deposits tend to collect more copper as bullets pass over them. So it may not be as accurate, for as many rounds, as when cleaned to bare steel. And without pictures thru your borescope, what 'a fair bit' of copper means to you is likely different for someone else.
Were it my rifle, I'd clean to bare metal & look at the barrel where the copper was for roughness that may be holding onto copper. If found, some judicious work with JB Bore Pase on a jagged patch - checking with the borescope - would be my choice.
Or review your cleaning methods. Are you spending more time & effort on the throat and near the muzzle, not as much in the middle? Again, guessing on my part: Yes, or the barrel surface may be holding onto copper in that section. One or the other.
I tend to clean non-Magnum rifles every 50-100 rounds, not necessarily every time I shoot them. When I do clean, it's to bare metal, other than a quick BoreSnake packing up at the range or back in camp on a hunt. It may take five or so shots - on my barrels - to 'settle in' after a full clean but IME, they shoot better for longer than if I leave copper in the barrel.
Also, pay particular attention to a carbon ring at the end of the chamber. In a tight-necked rifle, a ring can interfere with bullet release leading to excessive pressure. A brass brush with solvent, turned in this area by hand or with a drill on low speed (30-60 rpm) removes these rings.
Hope this helps.
We can tell you how our firearms might perform; I doubt anyone can say for sure how your rifle will perform. My WAG is with some copper still showing, it may be more accurate than before but not for long.
Copper deposits tend to collect more copper as bullets pass over them. So it may not be as accurate, for as many rounds, as when cleaned to bare steel. And without pictures thru your borescope, what 'a fair bit' of copper means to you is likely different for someone else.
Were it my rifle, I'd clean to bare metal & look at the barrel where the copper was for roughness that may be holding onto copper. If found, some judicious work with JB Bore Pase on a jagged patch - checking with the borescope - would be my choice.
Or review your cleaning methods. Are you spending more time & effort on the throat and near the muzzle, not as much in the middle? Again, guessing on my part: Yes, or the barrel surface may be holding onto copper in that section. One or the other.
I tend to clean non-Magnum rifles every 50-100 rounds, not necessarily every time I shoot them. When I do clean, it's to bare metal, other than a quick BoreSnake packing up at the range or back in camp on a hunt. It may take five or so shots - on my barrels - to 'settle in' after a full clean but IME, they shoot better for longer than if I leave copper in the barrel.
Also, pay particular attention to a carbon ring at the end of the chamber. In a tight-necked rifle, a ring can interfere with bullet release leading to excessive pressure. A brass brush with solvent, turned in this area by hand or with a drill on low speed (30-60 rpm) removes these rings.
Hope this helps.
I will second, "Clean till Gone".
I started using a product called Flitz Bore cleaner on patches first, then on stiff plastic brushes from Iosso and Montana Extreme. As the plastic brush gets worn, you can short-stroke it back and forth in the problem area.
Good Bronze bristle brushes from Pro Shot and Dewey do the heavy lifting when it comes to cleaning, and their best use is in the first 60 cycles of the brush, then put on a new one. Save the used brushes for very badly fouled barrels where you may have to use the worn brush with the Flitz Bore Cleaner, Jb, Montana Extreme Copper Cream, etc. I wash the abrasives out with dripping wet patches of Cigarette lighter fluid till the patches come out clean.
My 257 Weatherbys with short freebore have X Caliber barrels on them, and they are super smooth inside. I am shooting the 115g Bergers/110g Noslers at 3600 so at that speed, I do get a little fouling. I clean the barrel and examine it with a Teslong bore scope usually once a season, which is not much shooting.
These X-caliber barrels are shooting extremely small groups at 500 yards, and I pretty much keep the carbon down to zero build-up with just good brushes. By the time the carbon is gone, so is the copper fouling, as the copper is easier to remove than the carbon.
It is important to note that Hard cooked on carbon is an absolute bitch to get out, better stay ahead of that job.
I started using a product called Flitz Bore cleaner on patches first, then on stiff plastic brushes from Iosso and Montana Extreme. As the plastic brush gets worn, you can short-stroke it back and forth in the problem area.
Good Bronze bristle brushes from Pro Shot and Dewey do the heavy lifting when it comes to cleaning, and their best use is in the first 60 cycles of the brush, then put on a new one. Save the used brushes for very badly fouled barrels where you may have to use the worn brush with the Flitz Bore Cleaner, Jb, Montana Extreme Copper Cream, etc. I wash the abrasives out with dripping wet patches of Cigarette lighter fluid till the patches come out clean.
My 257 Weatherbys with short freebore have X Caliber barrels on them, and they are super smooth inside. I am shooting the 115g Bergers/110g Noslers at 3600 so at that speed, I do get a little fouling. I clean the barrel and examine it with a Teslong bore scope usually once a season, which is not much shooting.
These X-caliber barrels are shooting extremely small groups at 500 yards, and I pretty much keep the carbon down to zero build-up with just good brushes. By the time the carbon is gone, so is the copper fouling, as the copper is easier to remove than the carbon.
It is important to note that Hard cooked on carbon is an absolute bitch to get out, better stay ahead of that job.
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LDHunter
Well-Known Member
I hate to bring this up but I had the problem of copper collecting in the middle of a barrel and it was finally diagnosed by my favorite gunsmith as a bent barrel. We rebarreled and the problem went away and accuracy was improved. Your barrel may not be bent but there is something wrong there that goes beyond cleaning I'm thinking. That's not a natural place for copper to be found if it's the only place.
BillLarson
Well-Known Member
How many rnds. on barrel....???? 257 Wby.is one hell of a hunting rnd....
and VERY hard on barrels....
but just guessing 500 rnds. would wear out barrel.....
and VERY hard on barrels....
but just guessing 500 rnds. would wear out barrel.....
Bent barrel...humm.....warped during heat treat?
Recently, I saw copper forming fast in a cut rifle barrel starting 4" in front of the chamber, and the barrel was full of copper within 15 rounds. Barrel was rough, to say the least. I will use Brux and Krieger from now on.
Recently, I saw copper forming fast in a cut rifle barrel starting 4" in front of the chamber, and the barrel was full of copper within 15 rounds. Barrel was rough, to say the least. I will use Brux and Krieger from now on.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
Good question and very much specific to the barrel. For some barrels I can get away with almost zero copper cleaning. Proof, x caliber, etc. My xcalibers are amazingly easy on copper, some of the best hand lapping I have ever seen. As a result they do not copper foul much. On the other hand my savage barrels copper foul easily and need to be cleaned about every 200-300. On those I will scrub until gone, I will plan to shoot 3-5 rounds and hope that properly fouls the barrel to the accuracy level I need. Some barrels take more and some less so that is something you should document when building a cleaning routine.
What I do as part of a regular routine is clean carbon every 50ish, unless its a 100 round match, and make sure I keep carbon rings out of my life. I will chase copper if the barrel starts to show signs of walking or poor grouping. For a hunter, I don't shoot groups often and rely on my first round impacts to be where they need to be...... if I do my part. Yesterday while out wolf hunting I got the bug to shoot a group on a rock at 975. I was 30 rounds in a dirty barrel and playing with my triggercam. I was more than happy with the results so my routine is going to remain what it is. Now, the good news is that I can take this rifle clean bore to the field and it will shoot within the group on the fouling round. It is generally a little high but within .5 moa. Knowing that, I adjust for it, and hit the mountains.
What I do as part of a regular routine is clean carbon every 50ish, unless its a 100 round match, and make sure I keep carbon rings out of my life. I will chase copper if the barrel starts to show signs of walking or poor grouping. For a hunter, I don't shoot groups often and rely on my first round impacts to be where they need to be...... if I do my part. Yesterday while out wolf hunting I got the bug to shoot a group on a rock at 975. I was 30 rounds in a dirty barrel and playing with my triggercam. I was more than happy with the results so my routine is going to remain what it is. Now, the good news is that I can take this rifle clean bore to the field and it will shoot within the group on the fouling round. It is generally a little high but within .5 moa. Knowing that, I adjust for it, and hit the mountains.
In my case it's simple, I use copper remover when there is copper to remove. I have had a lot of rifles, mostly bought used and have a borescope that I use on a fairly regular basis. To my way of thinking there are two types of copper found in the barrel, first there is a smear, which looks just like that, a copper coloring on the lands and grooves but no real substance to it. I have found smears to be common and do not seem to affect accuracy. On the other hand what I call globs are just that. They fill in the corners of the base of the lands impairing the ability of the rifling to properly grab on to the bullet and severely affects accuracy. Just went through issues like that with a Browning 300WM. It copper fouled so badly that accuracy dropped off after 5 rounds after cleaning. It was necessary to do a copper removal every time it was shot.
Bore scopes can be wonderful tools but can also be your worst enemy. I have had barrels that looked like 30 mile of badly graveled highway that shot sub moa all day. Conversely others that look slick and clean that scatter bullets in a shotgun like pattern. If you see a rough area don't worry about it until it causes accuracy issues.
I think I will clean again and see if it comes out. It smeared in the lands but it does not look rough. It is also possible that the whole barrel might have looked like this before cleaning as I didn't scope the bore befor I started. I will try and clean it all off and then I am starting with a clean slate and I can keep an eye on the copper buildup as I shoot the rifle
338, I really need to get some of the Bore Bright, never used it...did not even know about it till last year. Your post is a "note to file" for me. Thanks!
