APS Stalker Hunter

[Fiftydriver]

Was able to test another customers rifle that wanted to share with you. Have had this one done for a while now but was waiting on a new powder that I wanted to do some load development and ballistic testing with in my 7mm Allen Magnum wildcat.

The rifle is one of my APS Stalker Hunter rifles.

This Stalker has a 26" Bartlein fluted barrel. I wanted to use this specific rifle to test this new powder mainly because of its shorter barrel. The reason is because this new powder, made by Ramshot and called LRT, is a ball powder. Its supposed to have a burn rate similar to Retumbo but in talking with others have heard its actually a bit slower in burn rate then RL33.

Hearing this I instantly felt it could be IDEAL for use in my 7mm Allen Magnum and likely my 300 Allen Xpress wildcats.

With the 180 gr bullet weights in the 7mm Allen Magnum, I used to use Retumbo as my GO TO power and in this 26" barrel length, it would drive the 180 gr berger hybrid to roughly 3270 fps with around 97-98 grains of powder. Load density was in the low 90% range.

Then with RL33 was released, I found it offered a bit more velocity at same pressures and better load density. Top average loads with RL33 and a 180 gr in a 26" barrel are in the 3340 fps range with mid 90% load densities.

Hearing about this new Ramshot LRT powder, I was hoping for even a bit more velocity and bit better load densities. Got my first 8 lb keg of LRT in mid week and yesterday I was able to do a load work up.

Started with 90.0 gr just to see what would happen. What happened was a hangfire and velocity in the 2850 fps range..... Instantly added another 5 grains to get up into working pressures and at 95.0 gr tripped the chrono at around 3050 fps, good ignition.

From this point up I increased a grain at a time and chronoed the results.

LRT topped out at 110.0 gr. I say topped out at because load density was around 99% and this was the first load where there was a very slight increase in effort to lift the bolt on a fired case. There was also a slight ejector ring on the case head. Seeing this I dropped back to 109.0 gr and considered that the max working load for this rifle.

In evaluating the cases for each load, all primer pockets felt even a bit tighter then virgin primer pockets. This is something I have always found to happen with Lapua brand cases as well as these new Peterson cases. From what I have been told is the case heads are formed in a way that when they are fired at high pressure levels, the case heads compress in a way that will actually cause the primer pockets to tighten slightly. I can say in this case it certainly does this.

Even at 110 gr load, there was absolutely no hint of any primer pocket loosening.

So, how did the powder do for velocity? Well, again, in a 26" barrel with 180 gr. bullet weight, Retumbo will average around 3270 fps, RL33 will do 3340 fps comfortably. This new LRT hit 3435 fps at 109.0 gr and 3465 fps at 110.0 gr...... Most impressive!!!

Its not every day that you find a new powder that will add 100 fps with comfortable pressures to a standard load.

Today I was able to test at 865 and 1080 yards. Shot around 15 rounds and all shot extremely well. I was mainly looking to see if there was any vertical stringing showing a velocity spread issue, there was none of that. Other then one shot that landed around 1 moa low of the rest, all others easily held to my accuracy standards.

The one that dropped out, I have no idea, likely just me pulling it so was not worried at all when I saw that only one shot fell out of where it should have impacted.

Now, I know some will say ball powders are not nearly as stable over wide temp changes then the best stick powders and I can not and will not argue that point. However, I have found the Ramshot powders to be the best ball powders on the market for stability over temp changes. Need to do more testing on this powder but so far, I am EXTREMELY happy with how it has performance.

Also seems to have a flame temp that is quite low compared to most of the stick powders I have tested in the 7mm Allen Magnum. Another benefit I have seen using ball powders. When I released this wildcat, I was using and recommending WC860 and WC872 surplus powders which were GREAT for velocity performance and extremely consistent and accurate but they were very sensitive to temp changes.

Since then I have switched to the stick powders and have had great results but this new ball powder takes it to another level and interested to see how it performs in more testing. Also expect to work extremely well in several of my other wildcats such as the 300 AX, 338 Raptor and 375 Allen Magnum.

More to come.

 

[JJMoody]

As always, appreciate the detailed report, awesome rifle and cautious optimism without touting initial positive results as Gospel across the board. Any thoughts on this new powder for more standard cartridges such as 28 nosler? Mine shoots the 180s around 3200. Seems like a possibility to push em a bit faster. 3465 with your 7 AM is scary!

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

Hmm, Wonder if I can break 3500 with it out my 300AX and the 181?
I hit 3586 with RL33 but that was maxed. My load now does 3490

 

[Fiftydriver]

As always, appreciate the detailed report, awesome rifle and cautious optimism without touting initial positive results as Gospel across the board. Any thoughts on this new powder for more standard cartridges such as 28 nosler? Mine shoots the 180s around 3200. Seems like a possibility to push em a bit faster. 3465 with your 7 AM is scary!

If i had to guess, i would say it would work fine but may be on the slow side for top performance. 28 nosler has exactly the same capacity as the 7 stw so i think a bit faster would be more optimum. Retumbo, RL26, ramshot magnum, would think those would be about perfect but again, until you try, you never know.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Hmm, Wonder if I can break 3500 with it out my 300AX and the 181?
I hit 3586 with RL33 but that was maxed. My load now does 3490

Not sure but going to be testing a 300 AX next week to see what it does. With how easily the 181 slips down the bore, this powder may be a big slow but we will see.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I was leaning to try RL26 whenever I get around to finding it

 

[Fiftydriver]

I was leaning to try RL26 whenever I get around to finding it

I use RL26 a lot in my 338 Allen Xpress when chambered in repeating rifles and loaded with heavy long bullets that are needed to be seated deeper to fit into magazine boxes. It works very well. May be just about perfect for the 181 in the 300 Allen Xpress but think it would be a BIT fast with the heavy 30 cals but would still work well.

When I say it may be a bit fast or a bit slow, I am NOT saying it would not produce excellent results. What I am referring to is the load density. My goal with my wildcats and any other round I develop loads for is to find a powder that will produce the best combination of pressure, load density, accuracy and consistency.

Optimum in my opinion is a powder that will max out in pressure at 100% load density and as such will result in a 98-99% load density with top pressure working loads. I prefer to NOT use compressed powder charges for a variety of reasons. Not that a mildly compressed powder charge is a bad thing or will cause any real issues but I just prefer not to. The main reason for this is in the past I have pulled loads apart that had been loaded for some time with compressed loads and when the bullet was pulled I found that the powder charge had become a solid column of powder and to get out a small screw driver to break the powder loose so I could remove it from the case.

I found this happen with ball and stick powders. As such in my wildcats which have relatively large diameter powder columns and relatively sharp shoulder angles, these loads that had set for some time(6 months plus), when fired resulted in higher chamber pressures, with stick powders sometimes MUCH higher chamber pressures and it did not really matter what powders were used.

So, because of that experience and testing I decided no more compressed loads for my wildcats to solve this issue. To test this I loaded up some 99% and some slightly compressed load density loads and let them sit for a year. Used Retumbo and US869 to test.

After a year, loads with compressed loads, solid column of powder. Loads with 99% load density flowed out of the case effortlessly......

Sorry, got a bit off track here. Anyway, RL26 would likely work great with the 181 and I would not think you would need to deal with compressed loads.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I started to get some light powder crunching at 109 and 110gr of RL33 with the 181 right as as I started to see signs of pressure at 110. I run it at 108gr RL33, no compression but basically a full case. This has me thinking maybe RL26 might not need exploring having thought about it.

 

[Fiftydriver]

I started to get some light powder crunching at 109 and 110gr of RL33 with the 181 right as as I started to see signs of pressure at 110. I run it at 108gr RL33, no compression but basically a full case. This has me thinking maybe RL26 might not need exploring having thought about it.

I will post the results with LRT, testing with 215s today. RL33 is darn good in the 300 AX though!

 

[Fiftydriver]

I started to get some light powder crunching at 109 and 110gr of RL33 with the 181 right as as I started to see signs of pressure at 110. I run it at 108gr RL33, no compression but basically a full case. This has me thinking maybe RL26 might not need exploring having thought about it.

Well here are the initial results from velocity testing with Ramshot LRT first ever test in my 300 Allen Xpress. The test rifle is quite similar to the Stalker Hunter in this post, 26" barrel length. Ammo loaded to relatively short 3.680" oal for use in the HS Precision detachable mag system.

For a bit of reference, in this length barrel, and with the 215 gr. Berger which was tested today, Retumbo will generally get you 3275 fps. RL33 will get similar velocities but with a bit less pressure. RL33 will run out of capacity before pressuring out with this bullet weight.

Another point of reference, my personal 30" 300 Allen Xpress rifle will produce 3350 fps with 106.0 gr. RL33.

In this much shorter barrel i started testing at 104.0 gr. of LRT and worked up from there. Here are the results:

104.0 gr........3103 fps
105.0 gr........3118 fps
106.0 gr........3132 fps
107.0 gr........3158 fps
108.0 gr........3168 fps
109.0 gr........3208 fps
110.0 gr........3250 fps
111.0 gr........3267 fps
112.0 gr........3320 fps
113.0 gr........3391 fps. **faint hint of ejector ring

Primer pockets held tight and unchanged with all loads tested. LRT worked up in a very similar way as in the 7mm Allen Magnum. Velocity gains were very small at the beginning of the test but as pressures slowly work into good working pressures the velocity gains start to come.

I have always found this when using the slow ball powders as opposed to stock powders. Generally with stick powders you will see a more significant velocity gain per grain of powder throughout the load development process. These ball powders however gain pressures very lazily until top working pressures are reached then the gains come.

I personally feel this is due to the fact that the stick powders offer more resistance as they are forced through the neck of the case whereas ball powders flow like water offering very little resistence.

I also feel this is why ball powders burn very dirty until you reach top working pressures.

Anyway, very happy with the results. Solid 100-120 fps gains over Retumbo and RL33. In fact this LRT load in a 26" barrel is out running my RL33 load in a full 30" barrel.

As far as use with the 181 gr hammer. It is my opinion that this powder will not pressure up with this bullet before running out of case capacity mainly because of the light bullet weight and the low engraving force these bullets need to start down the bore.

Certainly worth a try but suspect to slow. Even with the 215 gr. top powder charges were lightly compressed..... the 230 gr or new 250 gr hornady would likely result in a nearly ideal combination, similar to the 7mm Allen Magnum with the 180 and 195 gr bullet weights with this new powder.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I very much so like what I read. 215 doing 3300+ sounds like a winner!

Have you played with any of the VVN500 series of powders?

 

[Fiftydriver]

I very much so like what I read. 215 doing 3300+ sounds like a winner!

Have you played with any of the VVN500 series of powders?

Yep, hard to find, expensive to buy, great performance but very high flame temp causing accelerated throat erosion, other options offer same performance, easier to find, less costly and better barrel life.... think that covers my opinion of the 500 series powders.

 

[Michael O'Connor]

I use RL26 a lot in my 338 Allen Xpress when chambered in repeating rifles and loaded with heavy long bullets that are needed to be seated deeper to fit into magazine boxes. It works very well. May be just about perfect for the 181 in the 300 Allen Xpress but think it would be a BIT fast with the heavy 30 cals but would still work well.

When I say it may be a bit fast or a bit slow, I am NOT saying it would not produce excellent results. What I am referring to is the load density. My goal with my wildcats and any other round I develop loads for is to find a powder that will produce the best combination of pressure, load density, accuracy and consistency.

Optimum in my opinion is a powder that will max out in pressure at 100% load density and as such will result in a 98-99% load density with top pressure working loads. I prefer to NOT use compressed powder charges for a variety of reasons. Not that a mildly compressed powder charge is a bad thing or will cause any real issues but I just prefer not to. The main reason for this is in the past I have pulled loads apart that had been loaded for some time with compressed loads and when the bullet was pulled I found that the powder charge had become a solid column of powder and to get out a small screw driver to break the powder loose so I could remove it from the case.

I found this happen with ball and stick powders. As such in my wildcats which have relatively large diameter powder columns and relatively sharp shoulder angles, these loads that had set for some time(6 months plus), when fired resulted in higher chamber pressures, with stick powders sometimes MUCH higher chamber pressures and it did not really matter what powders were used.

So, because of that experience and testing I decided no more compressed loads for my wildcats to solve this issue. To test this I loaded up some 99% and some slightly compressed load density loads and let them sit for a year. Used Retumbo and US869 to test.

After a year, loads with compressed loads, solid column of powder. Loads with 99% load density flowed out of the case effortlessly......

Sorry, got a bit off track here. Anyway, RL26 would likely work great with the 181 and I would not think you would need to deal with compressed loads.

Your knowledge of powder burn and pressure behavior is well taken. Your professional consult proforma matches the best in this field of propellant science. What is a "181" ? Is it a new high B.C. hybrid in a .308 ?

 

[Fiftydriver]

Your knowledge of powder burn and pressure behavior is well taken. Your professional consult proforma matches the best in this field of propellant science. What is a "181" ? Is it a new high B.C. hybrid in a .308 ?

Hammer bullets makes a 181 gr. 308 cal bullet. Very fast, very accurate, very tough bullet.