7mm-08, 280, 280AI, or 284 WIN, need advice about brass.....

[cdherman]

OK, after torturing myself (and some of you fine readers as well) about what to do with my old 700 BDL in 25-06, I marched into my local smith today all set to re-barrel to 280AI.

No fuss with bolt face or feed rails. So he says sure, we can do that. But why not consider 284 Win? He says all his high end guys are going that way, just necking up the excellent 6.5-284 Lapua brass. He says so long as I keep the same .473 bolt face, he won't charge a penny more.

And he didn't like Nosler/Norma brass. (which is the old source of real 280AI brass at this time). Too soft, not consistent.

So I have been reading. I though I was done and decided.... Ugh....

Necking up 6.5-284 is OK, but there are threads about donuts and neck turning and I also dislike having cartridges with incorrect headstamp. Its a mental thing.....

Now, RWS makes 280 brass and its reputed to be high quality. But expensive. And unusual.

Now I see Lapua is making 7mm-08... Hmmm

This build is going to be a stock appearing re-barrrel. The gun has decent 1970's wood, and both the gunsmith and I agreed that it would be a shame to basically harvest the action and trigger and throw the rest away, as the stock is in nice shape (the smith basically said he'd do whatever I want, but it was the nicest BDL of that age he's seen in decades)

So its not going to be a 14 lb super long range rig. Out to 500 perhaps as max. #2 Bartlein barrel contour, 24 or 26" tops.

And I'd like to stick to 7mm so as to be theoretically able to take elk (and have lots of 7mm bullet selection).... (please no 6.5 or 270 for elk discussion, sorry)

So anyone have any rumors about Lapua 280AI or 284 Win Brass coming soon?

I might just go 7mm-08. That would also make the gun shoot with relatively little recoil. Nice stock Lapua brass and a long action to seat some 168 or 180 Bergers however long I desire......

 

[MudRunner2005]

Stick with your original plan, .280 AI...

The others are great cartridges, but your smith is overcomplicating stuff because he wants you to be "hip" and "cool" like the other guys. Don't fall into what is trendy... Remember, it's called a "trend" and a "fad" for a reason...Because it comes and goes very quickly, and doesn't stick around for the long-haul.

Also, how does he not like Nosler/Norma brass??? That's some of the best brass out there. I've been using it for years, and it's well documented that I push my cartridges beyond what I probably should...

Just go Nosler/SAAMI .280 AI. Simple, and easy.

 

[cdherman]

Stick with your original plan, .280 AI...

Just go Nosler/SAAMI .280 AI. Simple, and easy.

OK, then one question if you have 280 or 280AI experience. Any issues with the long VLDs and getting to the lands with the factory BDL feed box?

 

[MudRunner2005]

OK, then one question if you have 280 or 280AI experience. Any issues with the long VLDs and getting to the lands with the factory BDL feed box?

Should be no issues. I can get to the lands with my .300WM, so you should have no problem reaching that same distance from the lands with a standard-throated Nosler/SAAMI .280 AI. I also have no issues reaching the lands with my .25-06 AI and .30-06 AI, or 7mm RemMags. All in standard factory 3.65" BDL mag boxes.

 

[toddc]

OK, then one question if you have 280 or 280AI experience. Any issues with the long VLDs and getting to the lands with the factory BDL feed box?

That is a question best asked of the smith who is counseling you to build it and should be backed up with MATH showing HOW you will reach the lands using his reamer for your specific build. That may be another reason the smith is telling you to go 284 as his 280AI reamer may have a throat longer than can be reached in the mag.
The 284 is hardly a FAD as it has been around a long time and now that the 6.5 is as popular as it is, isn't going anywhere.
Lots of brass out there and most of it is very high quality.
A few things though.
The 280AI will outrun the 284 by a little, say 100FPS with a 180 with the same barrel, maybe more maybe less.
280 brass is going nowhere as well. And it can be formed from gazillions of 06 based cases.
Accuracy? In theory the 284 gets the nod, look to F-class for this, no one is running the 280 AI in large numbers in ANY target discipline. However 99% of us will never be able to tell the difference.
PERSONALLY I would go 284 BUT I have built a slug of them and am very familiar with them.
This is truly a case of 6 one way...half dozen the other. You will probably never be able to tell the difference either way and neither will any animal or target you smack with it.

 

[cdherman]

That is a question best asked of the smith who is counseling you to build it and should be backed up with MATH showing HOW you will reach the lands using his reamer for your specific build. That may be another reason the smith is telling you to go 284 as his 280AI reamer may have a throat longer than can be reached in the mag.
The 284 is hardly a FAD as it has been around a long time and now that the 6.5 is as popular as it is, isn't going anywhere.
Lots of brass out there and most of it is very high quality.
A few things though.
The 280AI will outrun the 284 by a little, say 100FPS with a 180 with the same barrel, maybe more maybe less.
280 brass is going nowhere as well. And it can be formed from gazillions of 06 based cases.
Accuracy? In theory the 284 gets the nod, look to F-class for this, no one is running the 280 AI in large numbers in ANY target discipline. However 99% of us will never be able to tell the difference.
PERSONALLY I would go 284 BUT I have built a slug of them and am very familiar with them.
This is truly a case of 6 one way...half dozen the other. You will probably never be able to tell the difference either way and neither will any animal or target you smack with it.

Well, sat down today, grabbed an old junk 30-06 case, necked it down to 7mm (really pretty easy, with lube) then seated the 180gr Berger 284 VLD into the improvised 280 case. Following customary minimum seating rule of 1 bullet diameter, I created my "maximum COAL" 280 with the 180 VLD.

It would appear the 700 LA action truly is capacious -- there is at least 3/16" still in the mag box, so no troubles there. Admittedly, the 280AI case is longer by .096", but that is not going to mess with my rough estimates much.

As to the throat that the smith can do, I will ask him if he can throat to a dummy cartridge. Of course, then there arises that wonderful moment where one starts to decide ahead of time which bullet is the one most preferred.... Hornady 175 ELD-X, 180 VLD Berger... Maybe I should get some of the new Berger 195 Elite Hunters ???

Ugh.....

Also -- my new Hornady 10th edition manual shows the 280AI besting the 284 Win by more like 150 fls or more sometimes. Just saying.....

BTW, as much as I know this is a long range hunting forum, no one has commented on the 7mm-08. No one believes that the factory 7mm-08 Lapua brass is enough better and less hassle that they would consider it? Would make a sweet low recoil super accurate gun, and with a rangefinder, bullet drop is less of a hassle these days then it used to be......

 

[cdherman]

BTW -- the Gunsmith in question is the former head smith from GAPrecision, who split off in 2012. I am not sure I am allowed to mention him here, since I don't think he's a site sponsor. But he has done a lot of fine work both at GAPrescision and since then on his own. Living in KC is nice in this regard, his shop is on my commute to work.

 

[kodiakken]

Go with what YOU want or you will be questioning your choice forever or till you build what you wanted in the first place.
I stayed with the 280 Dies were easier to get for me and I bought it and went shooting no real forming brass and good bullet choice.
150 fps to 200 fps did not mean a whole pile of horse droppings to me!!! I do my job and the gun will do its part.

Ken.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well, sat down today, grabbed an old junk 30-06 case, necked it down to 7mm (really pretty easy, with lube) then seated the 180gr Berger 284 VLD into the improvised 280 case. Following customary minimum seating rule of 1 bullet diameter, I created my "maximum COAL" 280 with the 180 VLD.

It would appear the 700 LA action truly is capacious -- there is at least 3/16" still in the mag box, so no troubles there. Admittedly, the 280AI case is longer by .096", but that is not going to mess with my rough estimates much.

As to the throat that the smith can do, I will ask him if he can throat to a dummy cartridge. Of course, then there arises that wonderful moment where one starts to decide ahead of time which bullet is the one most preferred.... Hornady 175 ELD-X, 180 VLD Berger... Maybe I should get some of the new Berger 195 Elite Hunters ???

Ugh.....

Also -- my new Hornady 10th edition manual shows the 280AI besting the 284 Win by more like 150 fls or more sometimes. Just saying.....

BTW, as much as I know this is a long range hunting forum, no one has commented on the 7mm-08. No one believes that the factory 7mm-08 Lapua brass is enough better and less hassle that they would consider it? Would make a sweet low recoil super accurate gun, and with a rangefinder, bullet drop is less of a hassle these days then it used to be......

Hunted with the 7mm-08 for many years. It's an awesome cartridge. But, it's still no .280 AI.

As for bullet selection, that will be dependent upon your barrel's twist. Unless you have a 1:8 twist, or you are hunting on top of Mt. Everest, you won't be happy with the results of the 195's in a 1:9 twist. If you are going with a 1:9 twist, the 180 Hybrids would be your best bet.

 

[Sully2]

Im an old crippled fat man but you still cant run fast enough to give me a .284 anything.

.280 is nice and a 280AI might be even better..???...but a 284 sucks!

 

[ohiohunter]

Im an old crippled fat man but you still cant run fast enough to give me a .284 anything.

.280 is nice and a 280AI might be even better..???...but a 284 sucks!

I honestly think this is the worst post I've read on this site. And whats worse is its my home town. You're making cincinnati look worse than the bengals!

I agree, go w/ your initial idea or it will haunt you, but I will add I wished I had found this place before I built my 280 and someone would've talked me into the 284. After I picked up my 284 fclass gun I was kicking myself in the tail for building the 280. Nothing wrong w/ all the above.. there is just something about the shorter case that performs just as well or better. If I were after the extra fps I'd go shehane.

1:8....1:8.5..... or 1:9?? It would be a nice option to toy w/ the 195's but people way more savvy than I say its a wash w/ the 180's.

Reason no one is talking about the 7-08 b/c in this race it is the 3 legged horse.