As I recall, Ramshot Magnum was the go-to choice for the 338 Norma. Of the big 338's, the Norma has the least capacity so squishing enough powder in there is a bit of a problem for the real slow burners. It's ridiculous that there isn't more published data on this amazing caliber and the recent addition of better brass offerings has made it even better.
338 Norma Reloading Data
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sable tireur
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After using up 3 brand new barrels and way too much brass along with a huge supply of Berger 300 grain bullets powered by every powder deemed suitable for this cartridge, I have come to the conclusion that the 300 Berger is simply unsuited to this cartridge and the case capacity by overall length. The velocities generated and the accuracy achieved in all of the barrels and chambers were just plain underwhelming. I used 4 different reamers for throat and freebore on two more barrels reaching the same conclusion.
I switched to the 250 grain bullets from 3 of the top manufacturers and got great velocities/energy and the best small groups to date with many averaging 1/2" at 100 yards for 5 shots. This data was achieved using several of the powders already discussed with Re-25/26, H-1000, Norma MRP and VVN-560 leading the way. Nothing was difficult in working up these loads as as opposed to tearing my hair out attempting the same thing with the 300 grain Match bullets.
I will start a new sequence using a larger cartridge capacity for the 300 grain bullets.
I switched to the 250 grain bullets from 3 of the top manufacturers and got great velocities/energy and the best small groups to date with many averaging 1/2" at 100 yards for 5 shots. This data was achieved using several of the powders already discussed with Re-25/26, H-1000, Norma MRP and VVN-560 leading the way. Nothing was difficult in working up these loads as as opposed to tearing my hair out attempting the same thing with the 300 grain Match bullets.
I will start a new sequence using a larger cartridge capacity for the 300 grain bullets.
surgeon260
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Sorry to hear that the 300s didn't work for you. I would be curious to hear what your velocity and accuracy expectations/goals were for that combo.
I think that to make a sweeping statement that the 338 Norma is not suited to the 300s is going a bit too far. Maybe that is true for your specific rifle, but lots of people have had success with 300s. I am shooting 300 Bergers out of a 338 NM Imp at 2900+ (Magnetospeed and drop verified) with under 0.5 MOA precision. That is with a case full of RL33 and Fed 215s, annealing after every shot. My fireforming loads with virgin brass are also under 0.5 MOA, and they shoot about 2775. I am very happy with that level of performance from a big, magazine-fed 338 magnum.
I think that to make a sweeping statement that the 338 Norma is not suited to the 300s is going a bit too far. Maybe that is true for your specific rifle, but lots of people have had success with 300s. I am shooting 300 Bergers out of a 338 NM Imp at 2900+ (Magnetospeed and drop verified) with under 0.5 MOA precision. That is with a case full of RL33 and Fed 215s, annealing after every shot. My fireforming loads with virgin brass are also under 0.5 MOA, and they shoot about 2775. I am very happy with that level of performance from a big, magazine-fed 338 magnum.
In my Christensen Arms Reloader 22 did not work out for me, just to temp sensitive. Working on reloader 23 now with 300 gr bergers. Past load development yield 2700 FPS average with no pressure. The slower powder did not gain velocity and the bullet was in the powder column. Maybe due to the 24" barrel. I use reloader 26 in my custom 338 Norma with a 30" barrel getting 2850 FPS with no pressure with 300 gr Berger.
codyadams
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Would you mind p.m.ing me or postyour load data for that 2850 w/RL26? I'm having one built with a 28" carbon six barrel, I'm hoping to get 2800 out of it....
sable tireur
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Without wanting to appearing acrimonious, I didn't ask for your sympathy nor do I require it from anyone. It actually comes across as being a little smug. But that can be one of the failures of reading the written word on forums where we don't have the time to compose properly thought out ideas.
No offense intended at all.We all have levels of satisfaction which keep us going. Some settle for less and are supremely happy while others push for better. The example I've been using is the staggering number of people who thought that the Tacso scopes were simply the best thing going for price and sharpness. You should understand the level of acceptance here... Many shooters will stop at the first node they come to with decent accuracy without even trying for a little more velocity and the improved energy on target. They think that loping along is just fine until they see the drop figures because of the low velocity.
I expect failure and mediocrity from time to time. I start and finish these projects with a specific set of goals in mind, nothing outlandish but fully acceptable in my range of experiences. This one in particular is a reaction to the bullet makers jumping on the heavy for caliber bullet band wagon and watching folks flail around trying to use an overweight, overly long bullet in a case which needs more capacity. One of the best attributes of the Norma Mag cases is the fat body on a shorter case allowing the slightly heavier bullets to be seated out to mag length. But there are limits to this length of course, without running single shots.
My conclusions above are based on the fact that you still run out of case capacity because the length of these overweight bullets is compromised by the magazine length. Sure you can cobble up your action by trying to use the Wyatt 4" box if that's what floats your boat, but that's not what I'm after. You yourself switched to the Ackley Improved version while trying to convince me that there is nothing wrong with the standard unimproved Norma case.
By simply using the 250 grain Match bullets (hunting or otherwise) driven by appropriate powders, you can achieve the required velocities along with the resultant energy on target. You stay within the magazine length, your bullets are seated in the case neck and shoulder properly and accuracy is superb.
I switched over to the .338-378 Weatherby case with a 32" barrel. Loading these 300 gr. bullets way over magazine length and shooting as a single shot I was able to achieve the performance and accuracy I wanted but did not get from the smaller case. But it's still a single shot.
The Warner 255 gr. Flat Line Match bullet remains supersonic past 2,500 yards and 2,100 yards approximately with a Berger 250 gr. Elite Hunter. This is further than I will hunt but I tested it anyway...Now I'll switch up to the .338-375 Chey-Tac case to see if anything more can be realized from from either bullet weight.
Regards.
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surgeon260
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Really not interested in arguing with anonymous tough guys on the internet. What does interest me is correcting factually incorrect statements. I shoot 300 Bergers out of a Norma with the boattail above the neck shoulder junction, and my cartridges easily fit into a CIP AICS magazine. COAL is well under 3.8". If you don't like the Norma or it doesn't meet your goals, fair enough (you never did answer my question about your velocity goal with the chambering). But stop making statements that the 300s take up tons of capacity in the case or only work with a 4" Wyatt's box. That is just not true.
And yes I run an improved version, but the case length is basically identical.
And yes I run an improved version, but the case length is basically identical.
codyadams
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Sounds more like you were expecting too much out of a certain case. If you were getting anything over 2650 with the 300, then being disappointed that you weren't getting more is simply expecting more than a cartridge is capable of, and is your own fault. The .338 Norma was designed around a 300 grain bullet going 2650-2750.Without wanting to appearing acrimonious, I didn't ask for your sympathy nor do I require it from anyone. It actually comes across as being a little smug. But that can be one of the failures of reading the written word on forums where we don't have the time to compose properly thought out ideas.
We all have levels of satisfaction which keep us going. Some settle for less and are supremely happy while others push for better. The example I've been using is the staggering number of people who thought that the Tacso scopes were simply the best thing going for price and sharpness. You should understand the level of acceptance here... Many shooters will stop at the first node they come to with decent accuracy without even trying for a little more velocity and the improved energy on target. They think that loping along is just fine until they see the drop figures because of the low velocity.
I expect failure and mediocrity from time to time. I start and finish these projects with a specific set of goals in mind, nothing outlandish but fully acceptable in my range of experiences. This one in particular is a reaction to the bullet makers jumping on the heavy for caliber bullet band wagon and watching folks flail around trying to use an overweight, overly long bullet in a case which needs more capacity. One of the best attributes of the Norma Mag cases is the fat body on a shorter case allowing the slightly heavier bullets to be seated out to mag length. But there are limits to this length of course, without running single shots.
My conclusions above are based on the fact that you still run out of case capacity because the length of these overweight bullets is compromised by the magazine length. Sure you can cobble up your action by trying to use the Wyatt 4" box if that's what floats your boat, but that's not what I'm after. You yourself switched to the Ackley Improved version while trying to convince me that there is nothing wrong with the standard unimproved Norma case.
By simply using the 250 grain Match bullets (hunting or otherwise) driven by appropriate powders, you can achieve the required velocities along with the resultant energy on target. You stay within the magazine length, your bullets are seated in the case neck and shoulder properly and accuracy is superb.
I switched over to the .338-378 Weatherby case with a 32" barrel. Loading these 300 gr. bullets way over magazine length and shooting as a single shot I was able to achieve the performance and accuracy I wanted but did not get from the smaller case. But it's still a single shot.
Now I'll switch up to the .338-375 Chey-Tac case to see if anything more can be realized from from either bullet weight.
Regards.
I see the 338 Norma as the 308 of the big 338's. Predictably accurate, easily tuneable and throws a big pill. Pushing a 300 gr. bullet at 2650+ is impressive and it will make an impression on anything it hits. The efficiency and extra barrel life doesn't hurt either. For the life of me, I don't see why it isn't at the top of the list for more LR hunters.
6.5x47hunter
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i sure do agree to that statement! but,?
i think that went more to the necked down version,,,300 Norma mag
Just as good and possibly better. Extremes make for good entertainment but somewhere in the middle is almost always where the workmen land. Reliable, accurate, predictable, low maintenance. I'm also fond of the 6.5 x 47. Not the hot rod that makes men's panties wet but just gets it done time and time again.
One of these days, somebody is going to break through the glass ceiling of, "less is sometimes more" glass ceiling. Heck... the old buffalo hunters knew that a slow moving, heavy bullet, busted up everything in it's path and anchored the quarry right there.
The 338 Norma... what don't you know about it?
surgeon260
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Great post. You and I think very much alike (I am also a huge fan of the 6.5x47). I will take consistency over velocity every time. The Norma magnums, both 300 and 338, are becoming some of my favorite cartridges because for being big magnums, they are optimized for the characteristics that matter most to me: consistency, inherent precision, and reloader friendliness.
6.5x47hunter
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looks like there are 3 of us alike. my 300 Norma Mag pic is posted on this site too lol.
6.5x47 140 berger 2830fps for deer and antelope
300NM to pick up where it leaves off. 230 Hybrid 2930fps
best combination i ever used
