.22 Nosler
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Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
Have heard of them both. Brass for both is discontinued and the .224 has a stupid bolt face. Neither of them are desirable to me.
kountryboy2
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- Jan 14, 2017
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I sure have. I own a 1964 model 70 in 225. I shoots pretty good.
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kountryboy2
New Member
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- Jan 14, 2017
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Brass for the 225 is no problem to find. Winchester told me they are going too make a run on brass sometime this year. I have no idea about the 224
TXAoudadKlr
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Interesting, I was pondering the idea of taking a 6.5x284 case and shortening it by .170" and bumbing the shoulder back by .150" and an OAL of 2.800 for use in an Ar-10 platform. I think it would have a decent gain over the 260 or 6.5 creedmoor.
I think the 22 Nosler is a neat little round I might get an upper in it. Could pull double duty, varmits and at moderate distances deer size game.
The .22 Nosler is now official and some more details have shown up. Nosler has load data listed for it on their site (link below) and I took some time to look over it and compare it to similar cartridges. I went ahead and did a comparison, using Nosler's online loading manual, of the capacity for multiple cartridges that are similar to the .22 Nosler and rounds that it has been compared to.
These capacities are listed as being measured with H2O but I find it weird how they came up with different case capacities for almost every bullet weight in nearly every cartridge listed. Not sure how they got the numbers, could be different cases were used and what not but I gave the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC the benefit of the doubt and used the highest capacity listed. For the .22cal cartridges I used the H2O capacity listed under the 55gr bullet because that is currently the lightest loading for the .22 Nosler and I wanted to try and keep everything even. What I took away from this is that the .22 Nosler adds 3.2gr of capacity over the 6.8, close to what I originally predicted. The only thing that seems off is the actual capacity numbers, everywhere else I look it seems some of the rounds listed actually hold a few grains more than Nosler shows, but I kept the playing field even and pulled all the data from the same source. Case capacities in H2O listed below, from Nosler's online load data.
.223 Rem- 27.4
.22 PPC- 29.2
.22 BR- 34.5
.22 Nosler- 34.7
.225 Win- 40.0
.22-250- 42.4
6.8 SPC- 31.5
6.5 Grendel- 33.0
What I discovered was how similar the .22 BR and .22 Nosler are in terms of capacity. The only odd thing I found was Nosler's data for their .22 was a couple grains under the .22 BR, which has just a smidge less capacity. For instance, both cartridges were listed with a 55gr using Varget. The max load for the Nosler is 30.0gr with 93% density going 3406fps. The same bullet and powder in the BR is listed with 32.0gr max with a speed of 3544 and a load density of 100%. To me it seems the .22 Nosler should duplicate the .22 BR, but according to the load data, it seems to be almost underloaded. Even the little .22 PPC, with 5.5gr less volume than the Nosler, is running 28gr of Varget with a 55 going 3361 loaded to a density of 104%. Now Varget isn't the best performing powder for the PPC, according to Nosler's data, but it's an example to keep all things equal. All three cartridges were tested with 24" barrels and the same 55gr Ballistc Tip bullets.
I am looking forward to the loads guys come up with when the .22 Nosler gets in their hands. I personally am still interested in it if it will load and eject from a 700. No matter how it is criticized, I think it will be an excellent cartridge for the small bolt face actions and a nice upgrade to AR shooters as long as it functions and operates properly. Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share my findings after checking out the new data for a little bit today.
.22 Nosler Load Data Link
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/22-nosler/
These capacities are listed as being measured with H2O but I find it weird how they came up with different case capacities for almost every bullet weight in nearly every cartridge listed. Not sure how they got the numbers, could be different cases were used and what not but I gave the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC the benefit of the doubt and used the highest capacity listed. For the .22cal cartridges I used the H2O capacity listed under the 55gr bullet because that is currently the lightest loading for the .22 Nosler and I wanted to try and keep everything even. What I took away from this is that the .22 Nosler adds 3.2gr of capacity over the 6.8, close to what I originally predicted. The only thing that seems off is the actual capacity numbers, everywhere else I look it seems some of the rounds listed actually hold a few grains more than Nosler shows, but I kept the playing field even and pulled all the data from the same source. Case capacities in H2O listed below, from Nosler's online load data.
.223 Rem- 27.4
.22 PPC- 29.2
.22 BR- 34.5
.22 Nosler- 34.7
.225 Win- 40.0
.22-250- 42.4
6.8 SPC- 31.5
6.5 Grendel- 33.0
What I discovered was how similar the .22 BR and .22 Nosler are in terms of capacity. The only odd thing I found was Nosler's data for their .22 was a couple grains under the .22 BR, which has just a smidge less capacity. For instance, both cartridges were listed with a 55gr using Varget. The max load for the Nosler is 30.0gr with 93% density going 3406fps. The same bullet and powder in the BR is listed with 32.0gr max with a speed of 3544 and a load density of 100%. To me it seems the .22 Nosler should duplicate the .22 BR, but according to the load data, it seems to be almost underloaded. Even the little .22 PPC, with 5.5gr less volume than the Nosler, is running 28gr of Varget with a 55 going 3361 loaded to a density of 104%. Now Varget isn't the best performing powder for the PPC, according to Nosler's data, but it's an example to keep all things equal. All three cartridges were tested with 24" barrels and the same 55gr Ballistc Tip bullets.
I am looking forward to the loads guys come up with when the .22 Nosler gets in their hands. I personally am still interested in it if it will load and eject from a 700. No matter how it is criticized, I think it will be an excellent cartridge for the small bolt face actions and a nice upgrade to AR shooters as long as it functions and operates properly. Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share my findings after checking out the new data for a little bit today.
.22 Nosler Load Data Link
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/22-nosler/
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
So I was right, might as well just build a 6.5 Grendel...
So I was right, might as well just build a 6.5 Grendel...
Depends on what you want. I want a .22 cal for short range varmint work. The Grendel doesn't have an advantage with almost 2gr less capacity. The .22 PPC shares the same parent case as the Grendel (.220 Russian) and the case dimensions are only slightly different between the two. Yet the .22 PPC has 5.5gr less capacity than the .22 Nosler, so if I have to pick between the Grendel style case or the .22 Nosler for a .22cal I will lean towards the .22 Nosler, which also has a standard bolt face that it shares with the .223 unlike the PPC/Grendel. Neck the .22 Nosler up to 6.5 and you'll see an additional gain in H2O capacity due to the neck I.D. being larger and being able to accommodate more water. I think the best thing would be to measure the case capacity to the bottom of the neck to get more real world numbers. No doubt the Grendel is one of the best AR rounds, I just think the .22 Nosler case has potential.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
If you build on a .223 bolt action, you're going to have to swap the follower and open the feed rails anyway with the .22 Nosler, so the only difference at that point is opening the bolt face to .445" for the .22 PPC/.220 Russian/6.5 Grendel/7.62x39.
The only thing that weirds me out about it, is the .223 diameter rim, and the larger case body...Like the .458 SOCOM and .50 Beowulf have. It doesn't look stable enough to handle a cartridge of that power. In other words, despite the "pro" that it has the very common .223 bolt face, it looks (to me) that this will be the weak-point of the cartridge design.
I agree. I said this very same thing in another thread in the ar15 sub-forum. If this thing is loaded up to the pressure that the case volume is capable of producing I don't see more than 3 reloads. In an AR platform I hope the case design feeds well.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
That also merits some testing. I'm not trying to "down" the .22 Nosler, I'm just saying that I think they should have thought it through better.
The only reason they did what they did, was to be "proprietary" (like their other Nosler cartridges), because if they had gone with the .445 bolt face, they would basically be building a .220 Russian and if they improved it and shortened it, it would basically be designing a .22 PPC. And if they had necked-down the Grendel case, it would basically be a 5.45x39 Russian, even though it uses a slightly smaller, weird-sized bolt face.
Personally, I think a .22 Grendel wildcat would be the better route, since many companies already build a .445 Grendel bolt for the AR15 carrier and Lapua and Hornady make Grendel brass. Just my thoughts.
Or they could have actually done something legit like a SS SAUM or something with some real horsepower for an AR.
I also noticed the discrepancy in case capacity on Noslers website. There's also a big discrepancy between their advertised velocities and their reloading data. Reloading data is way slower. Also, everywhere else I have looked list the 6.5 Grendel as having 36g of water capacity. A 6.5 Grendel necked down to .22 seems like a better design to me. You can seat longer bullets. I love my 6.5 Grendel. Just wish it was faster.
