What 10mm is everyone carrying?

"Now everyone carries a 10mm?" I know - right! The world is changing.

As a kid backpacking in big animal country the S&W 29 (steel) was the upscale tool vs. Ruger SA. We would not even consider a .357.
Then we had to upgrade to the S&W 29 Mountain Gun.
Next - marketers created 2" 29's for "backpacking" (I never fell for that one).

I did upgrade to a .44 mag S&W 69 2 3/4" as a backup for hunting bear (calling) - after a less than comforting event with a bear at two yards with a S&W 66 .357 (145 gr silver tips).

I did buy a S&W 329 .44mag at an estate sale. Delight to carry, have hunted Javelina with it. Brutal with heavy loads. (Even in an emergency I personally don't think I could not shoot 305 gr BB heavy loads effectively - I'd have to load them down some.)

Learned of the Dean Weingarten detailed bear attack statistics report, and the stories of Shoemaker, Petrini, Jackson events:
In 2016 Then Phil Shoemaker kills a grizzly with a S&W 3953 9mm (Buffalo 147gr hard-cast Outdoorsman).
In 2018 a New Mexico guide Petrini kills a large black bear with a 10mm. (Glock 20)
In 2023 Mr. Jackson was killed and partially eaten by a black bear while building his home near Prescott AZ.

To explore my old school opinions, I ran detailed wet-pack tests on .44, 10mm, .357 and 9mm - all heavy Buffalo Bore loads. Comparing absolute penetration and residual wound cavity volume:
View attachment 752151
In terms of absolute penetration (i.e. bear/lion skull, or vitals) - it appears that the .44 mag, 10mm, and .357 mag are almost neck and neck with heavy hard-cast loads. Easier recoil and capacity would seem to indicate that a 10 mm would be a solid choice.

How ever my experiments indicated a significant gain in wound volume of the .44 mag over the 10 mm or .357 mag.

For the largest predator defense (if a handgun is the option) it might be wise to consider penetration, wound volume, # shots delivered accurately, gun function if wrestling on the ground, etc.

For the country I travel and hunt in, I have upgraded my opinion to thinking a 10 mm is a good choice. - Considering power, capacity, weight, water/weather resistant.
I am curious to know what gun you were putting the180gr, BB, .357 mag loads through?? I have a pristine S&W model 19 that I would never consider destroying with those rounds. Model 27 or 28 sure, but what comes with either of these model handguns is the 44 or so ounces of weight. If I'm carrying that much weight one might as well carry a .44 magnum. Also I thank you for sharing your research. No offense to you being brought here. I enjoy charts such as this one in your reply, I just sent it to my sons. I believe that along with what cartridge one chooses to use as a backup handgun goes, weight is as an important factor as is recoil and control ability.

There are three of us who black bear hunt together, we all carry G20s, Lehigh 200gr, purple coated hard cast bullets. I think they are around 1000-1100 fps? Our primary bear defense is the rifle we are hunting with. I shot a bear last year at just about dark. We could not find any sign that I "even" hit the bear. Early the next morning the guide and my two sons a I went in looking for the bear. I do not walk well so I stayed where the bear was last seen going into the underbrush. All three were carrying G20s because the terrain is almost impossible to move through, a long gun makes moving even more challenging. I could hear there voices fading in the distance and then almost out of hearing distance. It was at this point that I realized the I was sitting in the woods, in the same exact spot where I had shot a bear less then 12 hours before, a fully filled bait barrel less then 20 yards away, and I did not have a rifle, but…I did have the G20 with an extra mag. I think that an additional advantage to having a handgun, at least for me, is to always have a gun on oneself at all times. I do not know what the statistics are for bear attacks in the area where we hunt, I am pretty certain they are quite low, however that is one statistic that I prefer not to be included in if I can prevent it.
 
these are my choices of what i own

g20 gen4
g40 gen4
xdm 5.25"
m/p mod2 4"
m/p mod2 p/c 5.6" (this 1 is fantastic and flat shooting with high pressure loads)
p320 x-ten 5" (newly acquired)

depending on barrel length you want to carry, a g20 is great, but i'm a s/w fan mostly
I was carrying a G40 for a while, like 100-150fps velocity increase. But I found it to be too long for me to clear the holster, so I opted for the G20 in a cross draw holster for my particular application.

Im probably going to get beat up here by the S&W fans, however…. In the late 80s I went to a S&W armorer's school at S&W's factory. After attending the school I came home, sold my S&W 5906, and bought a Baretta 91 for duty use. What I found that there was too much handwork that had to be done on the S&Ws and the quality control was very poor. For their autos there were 4 or 5 different sears, if one didn't work grab the next sear and see if you can make fit that one and make the gun cycle!!

A couple of years later I went to a Glock armorer's school. There were 34 students in this class. At the time Glock 17s were popular, all of the students were carrying G17s. The class was split in half, we all totally disassembled our Glocks, put all the parts in a 5x9 baking pan, just keeping the slide, barrel and receiver together. We then swapped out our pans with the other 17 students in the class. We reassembled our guns went to the range and out 1000 rounds through the guns with no issues!! After that school we made the department's assigned weapon Glocks.
 
Has anyone in this thread used the Nosler 200 grain JHP for deer or hogs? I'm thinking about loading up some, but I'd like to be sure the bullets behave well before I do.
I have never shot an animal with them, however I have put them through three G20s they fed well with no issues. We use the Underwood 200gr, purple coated, hard cast bullets while bear hunting. Hopefully we never have to shoot anything with this ammunition while bear hunting with them either 🤨!

 
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"Now everyone carries a 10mm?" I know - right! The world is changing.

As a kid backpacking in big animal country the S&W 29 (steel) was the upscale tool vs. Ruger SA. We would not even consider a .357.
Then we had to upgrade to the S&W 29 Mountain Gun.
Next - marketers created 2" 29's for "backpacking" (I never fell for that one).

I did upgrade to a .44 mag S&W 69 2 3/4" as a backup for hunting bear (calling) - after a less than comforting event with a bear at two yards with a S&W 66 .357 (145 gr silver tips).

I did buy a S&W 329 .44mag at an estate sale. Delight to carry, have hunted Javelina with it. Brutal with heavy loads. (Even in an emergency I personally don't think I could not shoot 305 gr BB heavy loads effectively - I'd have to load them down some.)

Learned of the Dean Weingarten detailed bear attack statistics report, and the stories of Shoemaker, Petrini, Jackson events:
In 2016 Then Phil Shoemaker kills a grizzly with a S&W 3953 9mm (Buffalo 147gr hard-cast Outdoorsman).
In 2018 a New Mexico guide Petrini kills a large black bear with a 10mm. (Glock 20)
In 2023 Mr. Jackson was killed and partially eaten by a black bear while building his home near Prescott AZ.

To explore my old school opinions, I ran detailed wet-pack tests on .44, 10mm, .357 and 9mm - all heavy Buffalo Bore loads. Comparing absolute penetration and residual wound cavity volume:
View attachment 752151
In terms of absolute penetration (i.e. bear/lion skull, or vitals) - it appears that the .44 mag, 10mm, and .357 mag are almost neck and neck with heavy hard-cast loads. Easier recoil and capacity would seem to indicate that a 10 mm would be a solid choice.

How ever my experiments indicated a significant gain in wound volume of the .44 mag over the 10 mm or .357 mag.

For the largest predator defense (if a handgun is the option) it might be wise to consider penetration, wound volume, # shots delivered accurately, gun function if wrestling on the ground, etc.

For the country I travel and hunt in, I have upgraded my opinion to thinking a 10 mm is a good choice. - Considering power, capacity, weight, water/weather resistant.

Thanks for the BB comparison!

I've decided to carry my performance center model 327 in .357 magnum as my personal Griz repellent.

Even with the heavy 180s I shoot it better than my Glock 20. Figure 8 rounds on target are better than 15 not so accurate
 
If your going to the trouble of reloading I'd look at the Montana Bullet Works 200 grain WFN-GC & AA #9 powder
Those are my favorite bullet in the 10mm and 10mm Mag. I've seen much better/straighter penetration with that mold than a lot of the other heavy 10mm bullets. And they just look good!
 

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Those are my favorite bullet in the 10mm and 10mm Mag. I've seen much better/straighter penetration with that mold than a lot of the other heavy 10mm bullets. And they just look good!

They are a very nice product. Just be aware that nose profile & recoil level can cause feeding issues in some auto designs.. My Performance Center M&P 2.0 wouldn't feed reliably & would even drop the mostly full magazine out of the gripframe under recoil.

Not exactly what I was looking for in a defensive situation 🤕


They run in my G20
 
They are a very nice product. Just be aware that nose profile & recoil level can cause feeding issues in some auto designs.. My Performance Center M&P 2.0 wouldn't feed reliably & would even drop the mostly full magazine out of the gripframe under recoil.

Not exactly what I was looking for in a defensive situation 🤕


They run in my G20
That doesn't surprise me too much about the feeding. I've had good luck feeding them through a 1911, but the OAL needs to be dead on! lol
 
They are a very nice product. Just be aware that nose profile & recoil level can cause feeding issues in some auto designs.. My Performance Center M&P 2.0 wouldn't feed reliably & would even drop the mostly full magazine out of the gripframe under recoil.

Not exactly what I was looking for in a defensive situation 🤕


They run in my G20
That was a thought of mine too. That is a significant metplat on those bullets. Feeding could be an issue with the G20
 
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I have G20, Springfield Armory XDM osp elite 10 mm and Rock island m1911 A1 standard in 10 mm. I prefer my SA elite over the Glock but really like my RI as well but give the edge to SA elite.
 

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