Not to even mention their s****y brass.
What’s up with Hornady’s reloading podcast?
- Thread starter nealm66
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nealm66
Well-Known Member
Ouch, lol
nealm66
Well-Known Member
I don't want to bash them or their products. I'm teaching a guy right now how to convert and tune his factory rifle with 178 eldx's as they are reasonably priced and shoot extremely good.
nealm66
Well-Known Member
But I'm calling them out on this reloading horse shiat
Ckleeves
Well-Known Member
What exact part(s) of what they said are you calling them out on?
nealm66
Well-Known Member
I'm saying that with bullet seating and/or powder charges you can tune your rifle/pistol to shoot more accurately. Shoveling powder and throwing a bullet in nilly willy doesn't tell you whether you're using a good powder. If you want to believe otherwise, by all means, do as they do
willfrye027
Well-Known Member
Show us a statistically relevant (20 shot minimum) group IN the node, and one out of the node with the same exact components. I'd love to see you prove the ballisticians wrong!
stiff neck
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What is a ballistician? A guy with a job title from a mediocre ammo company who only achieves mediocre accuracy? Or is a real ballistician a guy who understands and successfully applies knowledge and methods to win matches and set records? Job titles don't mean ****.
Ckleeves
Well-Known Member
I don't feel like that's what they are saying. They are saying that the .3 grain changes in charge don't amount to a hill of beans and it's easy to think that they do when you see a 5 shot group shoot "better" at let's say 41.5 vs 41.8. It's not repeatable over a large sample size.
I have played with this plenty trying the Satterlee method, OCW test etc and I totally get what they are saying.
The changing the major components ie bullets and powder is a very good way to do load development. I have been down this road many times thinking I could force something to shoot by fine tuning charge or jump and have one load shoot .5 but and all the others with small changes in seating/charge shoot 1" but it's not repeatable when you revisit it the next day. A major change, either powder or bullet and suddenly it's like you can do no wrong it's shooting tight from the start charge all the way up to max.
I feel like you can get a real good idea of what powder to pursue by doing exactly what he talks about, couple grains off max, 35 thou off lands and 10 shot groups of each powder.
They never state that seating has no affect on accuracy just that in the grand scheme of things with their bullets and their throat designs it doesn't play a huge role and the .005 movements aren't really doing anything.
I'm not really a Hornady fan as far as their components but I do think their podcast is interesting as far as actually testing things that have been "gospel" forever.
FWIW - There is an argument put up in this podcast against what Hornady is saying. Also noted is that they are kinda fighting "with one hand tied behind their back" given a single brand of components and SAMMI to work in all rifles.
38. Murder Bunnies - Shoot2Hunt
Gunsmithing legend Blaine Painter talks about how his life lead him to becoming the GM of Unknown Munitions as well as his passion for the sport of Benchrest shooting.
shoot2hunt.com
I watched part of one episode of their podcast and it felt too much like an advertisement than an educational thing.
Hornady makes a fine varmint bullet and they're good at keeping them in stock that's where my involvement with hornady ends really.
Hornady makes a fine varmint bullet and they're good at keeping them in stock that's where my involvement with hornady ends really.
About 40 years ago, I bought a set of knives after watching late night TV. That is how I first learned about infomercials. That was the first and last thing I bought from an infomercial. I treat all these "shows", "podcasts" as infomercials. Whether they are from a company I am already a customer, one I had bad experience, or a new one, to me they are all infomercials. They ara created to sell you something. I don't call them out, I don't waste my time watching them and just like with TV, I change "channels".
There are some so called "independent" podcasts, I occasionally watch just to see how a product "works", but I know they are sponsored but many companies, at the very least, they are provided with the product to review. To me it is still an infomercial, but not as bad as others.
Be your own judge. Make your own experiments and mistakes, and also learn from the experiences and mistakes of others.
There are some so called "independent" podcasts, I occasionally watch just to see how a product "works", but I know they are sponsored but many companies, at the very least, they are provided with the product to review. To me it is still an infomercial, but not as bad as others.
Be your own judge. Make your own experiments and mistakes, and also learn from the experiences and mistakes of others.
I'm continually amazed by the emotional attachment to things in a sport/hobby dominated by the demographic most often (self-) associated with critical (non-emotional) thinking.
Whether it's cartridge, cleaning, or reloading, we (collective) get very upset when someone calls our baby ugly.
To group everything Hornady says into a "sales pitch", because they manufacture things that support our sport/hobby, is at minimum an over-generalization. Seems to me they are putting a lot of effort into this sport/hobby, and whether you choose to buy their products or not, would maybe get some credit for. We should be discerning enough to recognize marketing…and parse it from information.
As even mentioned in previous post, it "doesn't make good business sense" to tell people they're wasting components when you SELL components. Hmmm, it can't be both good and bad marketing.
Lastly, in this particular case, they're just pointing out what statistics has been telling us for years, but our emotions refuse to hear.
Whether it's cartridge, cleaning, or reloading, we (collective) get very upset when someone calls our baby ugly.
To group everything Hornady says into a "sales pitch", because they manufacture things that support our sport/hobby, is at minimum an over-generalization. Seems to me they are putting a lot of effort into this sport/hobby, and whether you choose to buy their products or not, would maybe get some credit for. We should be discerning enough to recognize marketing…and parse it from information.
As even mentioned in previous post, it "doesn't make good business sense" to tell people they're wasting components when you SELL components. Hmmm, it can't be both good and bad marketing.
Lastly, in this particular case, they're just pointing out what statistics has been telling us for years, but our emotions refuse to hear.
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If this is what you took from that podcast you need to relisten.
They said nothing about "shoveling powder" or doing anything "nilly willy." Being precise and constant when assembling the components is critical, and they have never said anything close to the contrary.
What they did say is 3, 5, or even 10 shot ladder tests are not repeatable (and they're not the only ones saying it). Have you done 30, 50 shot ladder tests? PLEASE do, it would be great to see your results!
As far as experience, these guys are paid to do this stuff for 40hrs a week. Your average shooter/reloader isn't spending 40hrs a YEAR reloading, testing, and challenging standards. In a couple months they can learn a hobbyist's lifetime worth of experience. Average joe can't afford to do the amount of testing they are.
