Berger supporters, Vocal Minority with Something to Gain, or Legit?

I haven't got to try the 215 Hybrid's in my 300 rum yet because I moved over 3 months ago and I haven't set up my reloading room yet. It's killing me. Have loads for 6.5 PRC and 6.5x 284 with Berger 156 EOL and new 144 hybrid I want to try. This year I wasn't thrilled with 140 VLD on 2 antelope does. 143 ELDX did well on one doe lope and 2 buck mulies . Used a factory Norma 140 Oryx out of 6.5x284 on a whitetail doe. Minimal damage. Have had good luck with 168 VLD out of 7mm Rem mag. Very accurate. Have only tried 185 and 190 VLD's of of 300 rum . They always worked well on elk and deer. Moving up to 215's. Bought some 230"s but think it's going to be a waste of $. Probably have to seat too deep in factory box. Just had a Bartlien 28 in. barrel put on it. Action trued. New firing pin and spring. New stock. Got it cerakoted. AND I HAVEN'T EVEN GOT TO SHOOT IT YET!!!

pburton said:

Over the last few years of being a member on this site, I have seen and got wrapped up in a lot of different topics in regards to what is best. From barrels, to actions, to bullets, brass, etc. At some point I had to take a step back and start making my own decisions on what was best for me and my hunting/shooting situations. In regards to bullets, I use a mix of Berger, Hornady, Nosler, and Hammer. I let the rifle tell me what it likes best and then understand the limitations of that particular bullet. Berger and Hammers have been by far the easiest for me to get excellent accuracy from most rifles. I have had very good on game performance from Berger so far. This being said, I only have a limited number of kills with them to make a true judgement. And up to this point I have not had the opportunity to use Hammers on game, hopefully soon.

I guess my point is, everyone hunts differently so use what works for you and don't bash other peoples experiences.

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That's what I am after a man that can name the top rounds thank you!!! Now I can go forward with my 28 nosler build. 4 good rounds to work with

bigngreen said:

Not posting the pics to be a jerk but DANG, how could a guy not be stoked about that, every time with soooo much more consistency than we were seeing from the other bullets we used, took me two years of this kinda performance to accept them as a solid hunting bullet. Most of my pics from over a 100 kills with them were on Photobucket cause I thought that was a good idea, not!! I do have a few that I didn't move.

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If your talking <100 kills in 2 yrs, that's impressive, better than 1 kill a week average, That's a good size prairie dog town.

KyCarl said:

You must not read? The post I was referring to CLEARLY stated a Buck Deer at 50 yards! NO WHERE did it say anything about a Moose no where! Perhaps you might want to read twice and post once? Or go back to school?
And yes around here deer are killed all the time with .22's like it or not!

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Take it easy there Cowboy! We are all just having some fun here LOL!

I made my comment regarding your post #84 where it's a bit confusing whether you meant Moose or Deer with a 22 on the shoulder. Hit the "Quote" button when you reply to someone...it's a bit easier to understand what you mean that way.

While we're at it....I've seen several Deer dropped with 22's broadside behind the foreleg, but you would be OK to shoot one in the shoulder quartering on? Maybe I'm reading it wrong?

PS: Regarding what you said to me about going back to school...I always hated school and I'm too old now to go back anyway.

No they work in teams one shoots the other picks up. Drive the roads at night
shoot them in the face. Never have the rifle and deer in the same truck!
Stay in contact on cell phones Very hard to catch the locals know all the in's and out's?
Just say "Oh I thought it got hit by a car"

They have high BCs, they're consistent, my rifles shoot them consistently well, and they seem to consistently kill well...at least for me. Pretty sure other bullets do the same. If those other bullets do that for you in your rifles, you should use them. The only downside to a Berger in my experience is price.

Troutslayer2 said:

I really want to shoot the 215 Hybrid, despite witnessing poor performance with the VLD with my own eyes. So I started really using the Google and reading real world reports here there and everywhere. The one thing that I realized, there is a very vocal group of people who are members of every single forum on the internets. There are like 3-4 people who are members of every shooting forum that ever was and post on all of them day in and day out. Don't you people have something better to do? Anyway, when you really weed through the "amazing" reports from the vocal minority, you find a lot of more joe average type guys who don't have the best things to say but seem to get drowned out or shouted down by a couple people who allegedly have killed ten thousand game animals without a failure.

Is it all guerrilla marketing?

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Most opinions are derived from personal experience, and those are, in most all cases valuable. Fact is there's not a perfect bullet for all hunting scenarios. My only recommendation is to be respectful to the the animal you're hunting and make your bullet choice based on your own truthful experience. For over forty years I've shot nearly all of them with success. I am one who demands terminal performance and who prefers the bullet to exit. I switched to partitions years ago. Then to Barnes and now to Hammers because of exceptional accuracy and performance. Select what suites you, but be honest with your results and you'll be happy. We're all on the same team here and hope your hunting season thus far has been safe and successful.

I shoot Bergers in my 264 Win Mag. First let me say that I've shot them in a custom 243 as well. First sometimes hard thing to do is to get them to fly well. Target hybrids are easy to make fly the VLD not so much. But when I rebarreled my 264 I was very fortunate to find a load and seating depth that worked. The gun shoots better than I do. But if I can hit it it will go down. As my son would say there is new school and old school. That applies to bullet technology. Being 54 years old I tend to do old school on most things. The Bergers are new school however. If your looking for penetration or a bullet that will pencil in and then expand keeping 90% or more of the bullet weight then don't use Berger. These things only make it a few inches then frag apart. Great for long shot not so great in the shoulder. But some of my best kills have been with Berger. But I believe you need to Taylor the load to the hunt. I don't use Berger's on the river bottom shooting white tails. That where the partition shines. The new ELD-X seems to be working well for everyone that shoots them but I haven't taken that gun hunting ever. Hard to mess with a good thing.

Troutslayer2 said:

I really want to shoot the 215 Hybrid, despite witnessing poor performance with the VLD with my own eyes. So I started really using the Google and reading real world reports here there and everywhere. The one thing that I realized, there is a very vocal group of people who are members of every single forum on the internets. There are like 3-4 people who are members of every shooting forum that ever was and post on all of them day in and day out. Don't you people have something better to do? Anyway, when you really weed through the "amazing" reports from the vocal minority, you find a lot of more joe average type guys who don't have the best things to say but seem to get drowned out or shouted down by a couple people who allegedly have killed ten thousand game animals without a failure.

Is it all guerrilla marketing?

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I use Berger's in my 300WSM and 270WSM also 300wm...... for instant killing everywhere from 100m out to over 1100m I can't find better

Troutslayer2 said:

I really want to shoot the 215 Hybrid, despite witnessing poor performance with the VLD with my own eyes. So I started really using the Google and reading real world reports here there and everywhere. The one thing that I realized, there is a very vocal group of people who are members of every single forum on the internets. There are like 3-4 people who are members of every shooting forum that ever was and post on all of them day in and day out. Don't you people have something better to do? Anyway, when you really weed through the "amazing" reports from the vocal minority, you find a lot of more joe average type guys who don't have the best things to say but seem to get drowned out or shouted down by a couple people who allegedly have killed ten thousand game animals without a failure.

Is it all guerrilla marketing?

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I have been and still am a barnes shooter, but several years ago started using 168 ,bergers in my long range 7 wsm for hunting because that wS the bullet and load i used for comp. This is a hybrid for target and hunting and decided to try it. I have had zero failures, nothing but humane one shot kills. Mule deer, big buck, 624 yds, went 2 steps fell over. Huge eland bull, 56 in neck. 568 yds, on shot, bullet recovered in the heart. Do you think he died? Kudu bull 550yds, spined and needed a finisher. Went nowhere! Red heartabeast 500 yds, 1 shot through shoulders. Mt reebok 556 yds, dead. Common reedbuck 420 yds 1 shot, dead, waterbuck 220 yds through shoulders, dead. Kudu 340 yds quartering shot behind shoulder, dead. 450 lb black bear, i shot behind shoulder, dead. And several other. I have been home since wed 12/10, from another africa trip. Took blaser 470 double rifle and a new 28 nosler shooting 195 vld's. Killef a 27 in roan with one shot behind shoulder,at 250 yd, and a huge bush pig at 35 yds with one shot behind shoulder. I haver never expected the raw penetration that i have seen from barnes. But i dont expect that from sierra game kings either, and they are spectacular killers on broadside shots. What do i get from bergers? Spectacular long range accuracy, .25 moa from these 2 rifles. Have not used the nosler to compete with , yet, but have used the 7 wsm to 1500 yds with phenomenal results. I for one think bergers are gr8 hunting bullets if you remember what their strengths and weaknesses are and use accordingly. Put a beeger in the RIGHT PLACE, IT WILL WORK, THAT IS MY EXPERIENCE. No bullet made, makes up for poor placement, which is where most failures occur. Just my 2 cents. I stll use barnes in rifles i have set up for barnes, but belive the barnes will stay in these rifles.

Troutslayer2 said:

Phase one of Berger defense- accuse all naysayers of being incompetent, unqualified marksmen!

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Doesnt make it untrue, we can only speak from our experience, will u argue that?

BallisticsGuy said:

To those of us that have a definition of bullet terminal performance that includes the bullet not coming apart before it's finished defeating the target, it's pure supporter foolishness to try to take what in any guise is nothing but a target bullet and to push it into hunting purposes.

For those of us that think (wrongly) that many light weight fragments won't lose speed and therefore killing power faster than large heavy still glued together bullets which have expanded a bit but not come apart it seems just right.

To me, it's abject supporter foolishness from supporters that almost by definition don't really get how living animals, physics or statistics work.

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Your point is what bergers dont kill? My definition is, dead is dead, whether i went through both shoulders or not. My cape buff last week died a lot faster with a 500 gr 470 behind shoulder than my first cape bull died with a 270 gr 375 through both shoulders. Both died, both different. Both bullets worked.bergers work well, but you naysayers are right, they are not barnes, partitions, hammers etc. We are not wrong, you are not right, they are different and both are very effective when used accordingly.

tooth doc said:

Your point is what bergers dont kill? My definition is, dead is dead, whether i went through both shoulders or not. My cape buff last week died a lot faster with a 500 gr 470 behind shoulder than my first cape bull died with a 270 gr 375 through both shoulders. Both died, both different. Both bullets worked.bergers work well, but you naysayers are right, they are not barnes, partitions, hammers etc. We are not wrong, you are not right, they are different and both are very effective when used accordingly.

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Great post and I totally agree with your last sentence BUT I think the point is that allot of the Berger boys profess them to be a DO ALL bullet from deer to moose, and make excuses for them when they fail.

They might be the most accurate and consistent bullet out there but they are STILL a non-bonded, cup and core bullet that was not designed to smash bone and continue in penetrating in a straight line.

I think that anyone who thinks differently is fooling themselves.

Ingwe said:

Great post and I totally agree with your last sentence BUT I think the point is that allot of the Berger boys profess them to be a DO ALL bullet from deer to moose, and make excuses for them when they fail.

They might be the most accurate and consistent bullet out there but they are STILL a non-bonded, cup and core bullet that was not designed to smash bone and continue in penetrating in a straight line.

I think that anyone who thinks differently is fooling themselves.

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Corrct, no bullet made does it all, none is perfect in Every way.