Motivation for ML hunting restrictions

[6.5x300 WBY]

It's to lower success rates. It's hard to know what the motivation behind lowering success rates is. Obviously they can sell more tags, so they bring in more money. It's easy to see that and blame it on greed. Primative weapon seasons, like ML and archery, often fall during prime hunting periods like the rut and are easier to draw for. A lower success rate means more tags can be issued and more hunters can get out in the field. Primative weapon seasons let you trade weapon efficacy for better hunt timing.

Agree this could be the heart of the matter but hope it doesn't increase wounding of these great animals too. But it will unfortunately.

 

[3800fps]

Sorry kids, but this grumpa says no scopes….muzzleloader season was and should be about a technologically primitive firearm, the use of which puts the focus on hunting and stalking skills and less on technology to make up for underdeveloped hunters.

 

[Plinker147]

My home state of NJ doesn't disallow my new full on custom McWhorter smokless muzzleloader 45XML. but does limit the powder used by making me use black powder/ BH 209 That alone effectively reduces my range. So why or what are the game commission reasons for doing anything?

Because use bullet type and powder restrictions are impossible to enforce. No way to tell what is loaded in someone's gun. This was discussed in NM before the scope ban.

Everyone assumes that there will be more wounding with out scopes. I don't know if this will be true. Guiding elk hunters I've seen a ton of elk wounded with people shooting muzzleloader a like they are center fire rifles, taking shots they shouldn't or are not capable of. I think the wounding rate will stay the same or go down since people will be forced to take closer shots.

You are going to see all western states start banning technology devices. States are banning trail cameras, scopes on muzzleloaders, computers linked devices. There is only so much game and continually increase harvest rates with technology will have an effect on populations. So would you rather sit home with no tag or have a tag with a muzzleloader with no scope. I think I would rather go hunting than sit at home.

 

[TBell]

Been talking about this with my cousin. Why there are so many restrictions on muzzleloaders for hunting and will more States follow Colorado and add more restrictions. Wondering if anyone has firsthand knowledge of what the law makers motivations are?
My cousin believes they want to lower success rates by limiting the weapons range and efficiency so they can sell more tags, basically greed.
I always assumed it was that people just have different ideas of what a muzzleloader is. Also hard for me to believe a wildlife organization wanting less efficient weapons. Wouldn't that lead to more lost game?
Can anyone explain the real reasons? And do you expect more restrictions to come? Like no scopes, no .45 calibers, ect?

I suspect greed is closer to right. Plus possibly the move toward woke attitude entering all gov. Departments. If his reasoning was truelly that muzzle loader were as effective as center fire then why not just say season opened sooner, but iron sights only?

I personally use scopes because of sight impairment, so I guess we need to start a class action suite with ADA against the Wild life department for visually impairment discrimination!

 

[VTbluegrass]

You know in some places they only allow single hook artificial lures (primarily fly fishing) in a wicked government scheme to cater to certain a user groups and curtail harvest. The nerve!
The most difficult part of wildlife management will always be the the Human Dimension. It's about attempting to meet the needs and expectations of multiple user groups on top of the sustainable harvest. It does stink when you have a grand or more sunk in a no longer legal rifle for sure.

 

[pointy sticks]

Sorry kids, but this grumpa says no scopes….muzzleloader season was and should be about a technologically primitive firearm, the use of which puts the focus on hunting and stalking skills and less on technology to make up for underdeveloped hunters.

This

 

[Valley Fever]

Nothing primitive about todays scoped muzzleloaders. States just want more and more money. "Game management should be scientific, maintaining a healthy animal herd." More wounded animals is unacceptable. Why allow everyone to use crossbows? Use of crossbow was originally allowed to help those with physical disabilities. Same BS.

I agree. Wildlife management should be, primarily, about the numbers. The number of hunters vs. the regulated herd tallies. Not so much about how the harvest is achieved.

 

[Harry Knutz]

If everyone in NM got together and boycotted, Take a year off of hunting, They would be begging you to tell them what you want and would cater to the hunters.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

This make no real sense to me. So lets have people hunt with less efficient arms, so we can be sure of wounding and injuring more game. If too much game is being killed with scoped ML rifles, then reduce the number of permits. For hunters above the age of 60 , Iron sights scan be a challenge, especially in low light conditions. Please Mr. Liley, think it through!!

 

[pointy sticks]

Lol so you have a less efficient fire arm you're hunting with oh my! One you could practice with it and know your effective range. Second this could be for faux pas on a long range hunting fourm but you can always hunt your way in closer into your effective range a take ethical shot.

 

[asd9055]

Let me see if I understand the ML hunters arguments. You want to make your ML with all modern technology as close as possible to a centerfire rifle, scopes, powders, bullets, etc., but you still want your special season. I am sorry, can't agree with that. Just one man's opinion. Want all the modrn technolgy, hunt in the regular season and challenge yourself with it on the ML

 

[Deleted member 123574]

NM will be banning scopes on muzzleloaders beginning this fall. Here is their rationalization:

"Stewart Liley, head biologist for the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish, told commissioners on Friday that recent improvements in muzzleloader technology have made the guns nearly as efficient as centerfire rifles. If the commission wanted to continue to allow the use of scoped muzzleloaders in designated muzzleloader seasons, he said the commission would have to reduce the number of permits it offers to avoid unsustainable losses to game herds.

(IMO fewer permits is preferable to eliminating scopes)

"What we're seeing biologically is that the harvest is going to be unsustainable," Liley said of the prospect of continuing to allow scoped muzzleloaders during designated muzzleloader seasons.

Liley said he expects that loss of animals to wounding by muzzleloaders may decrease under the prohibition against scoped muzzleloaders.

(Yea right and irons sights are going to help with hits)

Although scopes allow hunters to hit animals at long range, he said the animals may not give any indication that they've been hit so hunters may not follow up all their shots.
(IMO this is a lame excuse)

Commissioner Roberta Salazar-Henry cast the lone votes against the change on muzzleloaders. She said she was dissatisfied with the game department's public education efforts on the issue and said she was concerned that 17,000 muzzleloader hunters will find out next year that they don't have a chance to use their scoped muzzleloaders anymore."

from this article:

NM State Game Commission Bans Scopes on Muzzleloaders - New Mexico Wildlife Federation - New Mexico Wildlife Federation

By BEN NEARY NMWF Conservation Director Starting next year, New Mexico hunters who take to the field in designated muzzleloader seasons will no longer be able to use scope sights on their guns, the state game commission voted Friday. The New Mexico State Game Commission also voted on Friday to...

nmwildlife.org

I agree with you sir, people are going to take risky shots no matter what they use. Imo when states issue tags they should consider the tag filled, this way big game herds would have a better success rate, but fascist greed always gets in the way.

 

[huntercole]

I can see it from two ways.

More primitive weapon and keep the same amount of tags, or current muzzleloaders with less tags.

"Primitive" muzzleloaders will still do the job, you just have to limit your range. If not you may see more wounding, but that's up to the person pulling the trigger to get closer. If they decrease tags and keep the same muzzleloader people would be complaining about less opportunity.

A friend has a few smokeless muzzleloaders. He brought one out for us to try. 3 of us each took one shot at 400 yards and the group was around 3 inches. So 3 different people shooting, 2 of us shooting the gun for the very first time, was sub moa at 400. A little different the the open sighted flintlock and percussion guns. I suppose if you want to shoot with all the technology available then put in for a rifle tag.

 

[chav0_12]

Let me see if I understand the ML hunters arguments. You want to make your ML with all modern technology as close as possible to a centerfire rifle, scopes, powders, bullets, etc., but you still want your special season. I am sorry, can't agree with that. Just one man's opinion. Want all the modrn technolgy, hunt in the regular season and challenge yourself with it on the ML

Exactly! People are complaining about it. Nobody is forcing you to apply for ML tags. I don't get it. I'd almost rather archery hunt anyway.