The “It’s just a hunting rifle” Saying Bugs Me

[Jon Bischof]

JohnWess: The phrases "just a hunting rifle", "good enough for hunting", and my personal least favorite: "minute of squirrel" all belong in the same category of thinking. Usually voiced by a person who used to hunt but doesn't anymore, or a person who never hunted--their attitude toward it shows they don't know much about it or don't care much about it.

All my target shooting is geared toward making my hunting better; even when I shoot in matches, I only do it to improve my hunting shots. Many who punch only paper don't consider hunting a worthy pursuit. But for me, hunting is the pursuit and punching paper is just a necessary preparation for hunting.

Benchrest, sillouette, competitive shooting are all nice sports; good sports. But sometimes those who don't hunt really don't understand what we are about as hunters. And sometimes I look at these bench-sitting target rifle shooters and silently wonder to myself..."Does this guy know the true purpose of a rifle?" I'm talking about folks who have never killed anything with a rifle and then look down on those who do as though they aren't real riflemen. Well, to them I'm thinking, "It's only paper, so what does it really matter?"

 

[Window]

I honestly want some feedback from you ladies and gents to see if I'm the only one that feels this way.

It really bugs me to hear/read the saying "It's only for hunting" or something similar. I see this a lot when people are talking about optics, rifles, and accuracy. It seems to me that because something is used for hunting, there is a lower standard for degree of precision than say a PRS style match or shooting steel long range. Now, let me be clear I understand that someone shooting deer out to 200 yards does not require a 0.25 MOA rifle, in fact a consistent 2 MOA is probably fine (although I wouldn't go any bigger). However, this forum is called long range hunting and that is what a lot of us like to do here.

Now, I love the sport of hunting. I know I am doing good for conservation and I love the meat that comes from it. But, to be honest, the actual moment of the kill is my least favorite of the entire process. You can call me soft or whatever, but, I get emotional every single time I take an animals life and I feel terrible if an animal has to suffer any longer than it should. therefore, I require a much greater degree of precision out of my hunting equipment than I do with my plinking equipment.

If I miss a piece of steel at 1000 yards and lose a $100-500 dollar check because I lost a match, sure I'll be upset, but I'll get 'em next time! If I miss a piece of steel out plinking, jack another one in and let it fly. But, what if I shoot an elk in the guts at 600 yards and the thing runs for two miles, dies 16 hours later and goes to waste because I couldn't find it? Shame on me, that's what. I understand that an event like this is part of hunting and sometimes crap like that happens. But, if it happens because I required a lower degree of precision because it's "just a hunting rifle" I have completely failed at my duty of being a humane hunter and conservationist.

I am sorry to go an a rant. I would love to hear your opinions. No offense will be taken if you feel I am wrong.

John

I've nearly 50 and have been an avid hunter and shooter since I was four. I've also had the long range bug for over 30 years and have been precision reloading the same amount of time. Out of respect to all the members on this forum, I've never made a comment to the topic you have posted. For me, my hunting rounds get more attention to detail than my bench rounds and rifles. I want nothing short than perfection with hunting loads and rifle set up. I would never settle for a hunting rig that shoots a 1" or 1 1/2" group at 100 and call it good enough for hunting. I will take every step possible to make sure it shoots sub 1/4". In the field there are many more variables than there are off the bench. If people accept lower standards for hunting rifles, (especially those who shoot long range) that 1" group at 100yds is now a 5" group at 500yds. Any slight shooter error is going to make it even larger resulting in a miss or even worse, a hit animal that's not recovered.

 

[milo-2]

Your right it has been around since before my father was born. I am only 24. But, I think that's a mute point due to the fact that the saying well outlives all of us. My main hunting rifle is a 30-06 Stainless Rem 700 BDL and it has a thin barrel. It also shoots .5 MOA consistently. I don't think we need the most expensive things and I hear what your saying as far as equipment and tech.

I guess I am mainly referencing the saying when it comes in a nature that disrespects the animals we hunt.

Again, not saying that a bad shot can't happen. But if we have a setup that is capable of great precision and we practice with it to know it inside and out, then a "miss from out .5-.75 MOA" can still be a kill shot. Kind of like the old saying "aim small miss small".

I was not trying to argue with you at all. I shoot at least 150 days a yr, so around all kinds of differing folks. My point in a round about way, was that sometimes the intent of a comment not as severe as the initial reading of it.
But make no mistake, a Homer is a Homer, no changing that crap, lol
You just cannot say, "Why don't you quit hunting or shooting and not drag the rest of us down with your BS".

 

[antelopedundee]

99% of rifles produced are "hunting" rifles. For the most part they are pretty decent and adequate for the job. Even custom rigs aren't guaranteed to be shooters. While "it's only a hunting rifle" may be distasteful to some as was pointed out, it's clear that most rifles are adequate for the job as long as their limitations are understood.

 

[tony d willIiams]

I honestly want some feedback from you ladies and gents to see if I'm the only one that feels this way.

It really bugs me to hear/read the saying "It's only for hunting" or something similar. I see this a lot when people are talking about optics, rifles, and accuracy. It seems to me that because something is used for hunting, there is a lower standard for degree of precision than say a PRS style match or shooting steel long range. Now, let me be clear I understand that someone shooting deer out to 200 yards does not require a 0.25 MOA rifle, in fact a consistent 2 MOA is probably fine (although I wouldn't go any bigger). However, this forum is called long range hunting and that is what a lot of us like to do here.

Now, I love the sport of hunting. I know I am doing good for conservation and I love the meat that comes from it. But, to be honest, the actual moment of the kill is my least favorite of the entire process. You can call me soft or whatever, but, I get emotional every single time I take an animals life and I feel terrible if an animal has to suffer any longer than it should. therefore, I require a much greater degree of precision out of my hunting equipment than I do with my plinking equipment.

If I miss a piece of steel at 1000 yards and lose a $100-500 dollar check because I lost a match, sure I'll be upset, but I'll get 'em next time! If I miss a piece of steel out plinking, jack another one in and let it fly. But, what if I shoot an elk in the guts at 600 yards and the thing runs for two miles, dies 16 hours later and goes to waste because I couldn't find it? Shame on me, that's what. I understand that an event like this is part of hunting and sometimes crap like that happens. But, if it happens because I required a lower degree of precision because it's "just a hunting rifle" I have completely failed at my duty of being a humane hunter and conservationist.

I am sorry to go an a rant. I would love to hear your opinions. No offense will be taken if you feel I am wrong.

John

John,

Nice words spoken.

When I began hunting I would have one round in the chamber, 4 more wrapped in a sock in my right front pocket. I was taught by dad that you need to kill the animal or bird with one shot. I practiced and could get a 5 inch group at 500 yards, I was young with great eyes, and age had not attacked my muscles with the quivers. That was iron sights, no table or bipod, just youth and practice. I was taught that if a one shot was not possible to place myself in a better location.

I still practice with my hunting rifle, death needs to be quick and painless. I reload so I know exactly what the bullet will do wherever I am. I have had some factory ammo which was causing me to believe that my skills were fading, ±10 inch from mark.

Out hunting with dad, my father found me to track a deer he had shot. I was about fourteen if I remember correctly. I found no hair, blood or ground disturbance other than the footprints as the deer scrambled away. I tracked the deer for three hours, never saw a misstep, blood or the deer resting. It walked until we got close and would trot and then walk away. I convinced dad that he had not hit the deer, merely scared it.

When out hunting I get upset when I see a buck brought in that the fork was so small that a wedding ring would not hang on it. This makes me think that the deer was shot and if there was not a fork it would have been left and the hunt would have continued.

I am started to rant now.

Good hunting, have fun, be safe.

 

[RYEWSKY25284]

I honestly want some feedback from you ladies and gents to see if I'm the only one that feels this way.

It really bugs me to hear/read the saying "It's only for hunting" or something similar. I see this a lot when people are talking about optics, rifles, and accuracy. It seems to me that because something is used for hunting, there is a lower standard for degree of precision than say a PRS style match or shooting steel long range. Now, let me be clear I understand that someone shooting deer out to 200 yards does not require a 0.25 MOA rifle, in fact a consistent 2 MOA is probably fine (although I wouldn't go any bigger). However, this forum is called long range hunting and that is what a lot of us like to do here.

Now, I love the sport of hunting. I know I am doing good for conservation and I love the meat that comes from it. But, to be honest, the actual moment of the kill is my least favorite of the entire process. You can call me soft or whatever, but, I get emotional every single time I take an animals life and I feel terrible if an animal has to suffer any longer than it should. therefore, I require a much greater degree of precision out of my hunting equipment than I do with my plinking equipment.

If I miss a piece of steel at 1000 yards and lose a $100-500 dollar check because I lost a match, sure I'll be upset, but I'll get 'em next time! If I miss a piece of steel out plinking, jack another one in and let it fly. But, what if I shoot an elk in the guts at 600 yards and the thing runs for two miles, dies 16 hours later and goes to waste because I couldn't find it? Shame on me, that's what. I understand that an event like this is part of hunting and sometimes crap like that happens. But, if it happens because I required a lower degree of precision because it's "just a hunting rifle" I have completely failed at my duty of being a humane hunter and conservationist.

I am sorry to go an a rant. I would love to hear your opinions. No offense will be taken if you feel I am wrong.

John

I couldn't agree more. All of my Hunting Rifles are "Sniper grade" sure they LOOK like a HUNTING RIFLEs with, custom built camo stock, blued actions with trigger upgrade, stainless steel bbl, quality high power scopes. When people see my guns and ask me, I educate them.So when someone asks me what ya shoot'n. I always say "sniper grade hunting rifle" and then I explain the difference.

 

[gator378]

I honestly want some feedback from you ladies and gents to see if I'm the only one that feels this way.

It really bugs me to hear/read the saying "It's only for hunting" or something similar. I see this a lot when people are talking about optics, rifles, and accuracy. It seems to me that because something is used for hunting, there is a lower standard for degree of precision than say a PRS style match or shooting steel long range. Now, let me be clear I understand that someone shooting deer out to 200 yards does not require a 0.25 MOA rifle, in fact a consistent 2 MOA is probably fine (although I wouldn't go any bigger). However, this forum is called long range hunting and that is what a lot of us like to do here.

Now, I love the sport of hunting. I know I am doing good for conservation and I love the meat that comes from it. But, to be honest, the actual moment of the kill is my least favorite of the entire process. You can call me soft or whatever, but, I get emotional every single time I take an animals life and I feel terrible if an animal has to suffer any longer than it should. therefore, I require a much greater degree of precision out of my hunting equipment than I do with my plinking equipment.

If I miss a piece of steel at 1000 yards and lose a $100-500 dollar check because I lost a match, sure I'll be upset, but I'll get 'em next time! If I miss a piece of steel out plinking, jack another one in and let it fly. But, what if I shoot an elk in the guts at 600 yards and the thing runs for two miles, dies 16 hours later and goes to waste because I couldn't find it? Shame on me, that's what. I understand that an event like this is part of hunting and sometimes crap like that happens. But, if it happens because I required a lower degree of precision because it's "just a hunting rifle" I have completely failed at my duty of being a humane hunter and conservationist.

I am sorry to go an a rant. I would love to hear your opinions. No offense will be taken if you feel I am wrong.

John

Just a hunting rifle usually meant to me that the rifle is probably sighted in and ready to put meat in the freezer. At least that what it meant to me being from Wisconsin. Hunting was serious and your hunting tools were cared for and ready.

 

[Don A Parsons]

I hear yha John...

I hunt with a hunting rifle,,, sometimes I hunt with my F Class rig / or should I say PRS rifle now that I switched it over...

That's not saying that I don't shoot my hunting rifle at the shooting range either,,, it runs pretty close to my match grade units...

Same goes for my hunting and shooting partners as well,,, if the rifles fits us then lets have at it...

Most of our hunting rifles deffinatly fit into the target shooting categories these days,,, purhaps we're following along with other folks since the rifles fit into both worlds...

This is what I strive for when I do a build,,, a rifle that is to heavy to pack 20 miles but to light to compete with in National Match shooting,,, kind of the middle ground between both uses if it works...

My hunting rifles shoot good on the hunting grounds,,, they do ok in the long range category too,,, the things that gets them to shoot 1/4 MOA on a good day is me,,, same can be said when I see 2" and 3" groups...

The majority of folks in our area still harvest critters from point blank range out to 140/ 200 yards,,, I would think that the majority of the harvests are with in the 100 yards and closer...

So the either or rifle idea that folks use is up to them,,, I dosen't matter to me since I look after what works for me,,, I see a leaver action 30/30 coming my way after this hunting season,,, something a can bump and grind into the dirt,,, rocks and trees,,, back to the good times that use to fit my needs...

Cheers from the North

 

[Tom Wright]

I honestly want some feedback from you ladies and gents to see if I'm the only one that feels this way.

It really bugs me to hear/read the saying "It's only for hunting" or something similar. I see this a lot when people are talking about optics, rifles, and accuracy. It seems to me that because something is used for hunting, there is a lower standard for degree of precision than say a PRS style match or shooting steel long range. Now, let me be clear I understand that someone shooting deer out to 200 yards does not require a 0.25 MOA rifle, in fact a consistent 2 MOA is probably fine (although I wouldn't go any bigger). However, this forum is called long range hunting and that is what a lot of us like to do here.

Now, I love the sport of hunting. I know I am doing good for conservation and I love the meat that comes from it. But, to be honest, the actual moment of the kill is my least favorite of the entire process. You can call me soft or whatever, but, I get emotional every single time I take an animals life and I feel terrible if an animal has to suffer any longer than it should. therefore, I require a much greater degree of precision out of my hunting equipment than I do with my plinking equipment.

If I miss a piece of steel at 1000 yards and lose a $100-500 dollar check because I lost a match, sure I'll be upset, but I'll get 'em next time! If I miss a piece of steel out plinking, jack another one in and let it fly. But, what if I shoot an elk in the guts at 600 yards and the thing runs for two miles, dies 16 hours later and goes to waste because I couldn't find it? Shame on me, that's what. I understand that an event like this is part of hunting and sometimes crap like that happens. But, if it happens because I required a lower degree of precision because it's "just a hunting rifle" I have completely failed at my duty of being a humane hunter and conservationist.

I am sorry to go an a rant. I would love to hear your opinions. No offense will be taken if you feel I am wrong.

John

I concur--there is becoming a cult of long distance shooters pursuing the holy grail of the 1000 yard shot. First--one thing if at steel, another if at an animal. As for a solo hunter like myself, I'd NEVER take that shot since the chance of finding the animal is pretty damned slim unless shot in a bean field. With terrain and growth between the shooter's position and the animal being "whatever", how can you locate where the animal stood, the direction it ran when hit, without having the troop of extras found on the long distance hunting show crews to check range, altitude, wind direction/speed and to help mark the position as the hunter travels to where he thinks he hit his prey?

The real question, especially in the western open areas, is what is the terrain like where you will shoot an animal. The 'it's only a hunting rifle" might apply if you only need something that can shoot 75-100 yards, but not when jumping animals from 50-500 yards. Then the quality of the rifle/scope and your conditioned response is what it's all about.

I just got back from a mule deer hunt in Montana. I was there with 3 other hunters in camp I didn't know--they were from Minnesota and Wisconsin and I'm from Florida. During this hunt I noted a lot of differences that I think prevail. If you are used to hunting out of a stand or tower, you get focused on the perfect position of the deer, perfect set-up and thought out process of squeezing the trigger. During this hunt, their expensive custom rigs were't worth much without quick reaction time and ability to work quickly off a truck hood/door frame/sticks--no shooting rails available.
But a good accurate rifle/scope combo that one is used to using, over many hunts and in many different environs, is what is needed. But it has to be accurate and you have to know how to use it.

I'm not a great long distance shot, but I'm a pretty good hunter and have taken many animals from Canada to South Africa and in between. The difference is always the gun, the hunter and the control of your body and your ability. At the end of the five day hunt the others many missed shots with their $3000+ rifles. I was the only one to take a deer, a good 4 x 4 with my Browning Xbolt. And I missed the first shot--slightly over it's back at 260 yards , with the mulie at a run. The next anchored it. But the gun is accurate for me and I've taken African plains game out to 450+ yards with it. So it's not just a hunting rifle--but I know what it can do over a wide range of distances and with loads in 300 Win Mag from 140 grains to 200 grains. So my hunting partners had "real" long distance shooters, by my "hunting" rifle is filling my freezer.

 

[slas]

I only have "just hunting rifles". But, they have all been improved and upgraded.....pillars, bedding, triggers, great glass, etc. They have all had hand loads specifically developed for each one. They all get regular maintenance. I have practiced repeatedly with all of them before ever attempting to hunt with them......I might tell a buddy that these are all "just hunting rifles", because if I told him, "these are all personalized, customized and extremely accurate tools that have been set up, through extensive time and effort, to quickly dispatch anything that I am hunting by providing me the ability to put the bullet where it needs to go", he'd probably just look at me funny.

 

[Raudy707]

"just a hunting rifle" doesn't bother me at all. Hunting used to be a blue collar every man's activity. Today, it's really gotten money driven from tags, to clothing, to firearms. The guy in Colorado wearing jeans and hickory shirt with a red pad Ruger M77 30-06 with a Simmons 3-9x40 scope is laughed at. Scoffed. When did we get to this place in hunting? I met a guy last year with his hunting partners wearing holey wranglers, an old tattered carhartt vest with a pack frame and I asked him, why he wasn't carrying a rifle? He said well I couldn't afford the tag this year, but I'll be ready next year. This was a resident! Tag cost to him was $49. My Sitka gloves cost that much. Made me feel like dirt! His partners had rifles. One was a Remington 760 30-06 with a 4x Weaver scope and the other was a Savage 110 in 270 with a Bushnell 3-9x40 scope. We talked about elk for 30 minutes and they explained to me how they always tag out in this zone but it is getting harder and harder with the non-residents, ranching for wildlife and all the big money trespassing fees making land less available to them. These guys all had "just hunting rifles" and they looked at the ground when I said "what are you shootin pardner?" and he replied just my grandads ol huntin rifle...I said man that 760 is a classic and he perked up looking me in the eyes now and said you have one? I said I didn't but my best friend that was killed in Afghanistan did and I always wanted to ask his parents for it. He smiled and said yeah this old gun has killed a bunch of elk. Not a doubt in my mind I replied. Long story long, and finally getting to my point, there's nothing wrong with just a hunting rifle. We are pushing some hunters away and making them feel inadequate with the new age hunting standard. Those guys needed those tags, relied on that meat for their families and were all working together to get an elk. Not because of enjoyment, but out of necessity. Really put things in perspective for me. At the end of our conversation I said hey I really appreciate the scouting advice and I want to pay you for it. I offered the guy $40 bucks that didn't have a tag and said now go buy your elk tag. He said No you're sh#%#ing me? Seriously I want to see you hunting tomorrow. He said he would go get it as soon as he got back to Craig. It was an OTC zone and residents get to hunt all month if they don't fill their bull tags apparently. Felt good. I never saw them again, but hope they filled their freezers with those old hunting rifles.

 

[JWgroups]

I am glad to hear that I'm not the only grown man that feels bad when I harvest an animal. I know my hunting rigs parameters and stay within them to make a clean kill not wanting the animal to suffer. Everyone should know what their rifles are capable of and more importantly know their on ability to shoot at long distances to ensure clean kills.

 

[freddiej]

I honestly want some feedback from you ladies and gents to see if I'm the only one that feels this way.

It really bugs me to hear/read the saying "It's only for hunting" or something similar. I see this a lot when people are talking about optics, rifles, and accuracy. It seems to me that because something is used for hunting, there is a lower standard for degree of precision than say a PRS style match or shooting steel long range. Now, let me be clear I understand that someone shooting deer out to 200 yards does not require a 0.25 MOA rifle, in fact a consistent 2 MOA is probably fine (although I wouldn't go any bigger). However, this forum is called long range hunting and that is what a lot of us like to do here.

Now, I love the sport of hunting. I know I am doing good for conservation and I love the meat that comes from it. But, to be honest, the actual moment of the kill is my least favorite of the entire process. You can call me soft or whatever, but, I get emotional every single time I take an animals life and I feel terrible if an animal has to suffer any longer than it should. therefore, I require a much greater degree of precision out of my hunting equipment than I do with my plinking equipment.

If I miss a piece of steel at 1000 yards and lose a $100-500 dollar check because I lost a match, sure I'll be upset, but I'll get 'em next time! If I miss a piece of steel out plinking, jack another one in and let it fly. But, what if I shoot an elk in the guts at 600 yards and the thing runs for two miles, dies 16 hours later and goes to waste because I couldn't find it? Shame on me, that's what. I understand that an event like this is part of hunting and sometimes crap like that happens. But, if it happens because I required a lower degree of precision because it's "just a hunting rifle" I have completely failed at my duty of being a humane hunter and conservationist.

I am sorry to go an a rant. I would love to hear your opinions. No offense will be taken if you feel I am wrong.

John

John,
I have to agree with you most every point. the only part I disagree with is that even with the best equipment, the best shot, the best of everything. the best shot you can make at the very second sometimes is not enough to dispatch an animal instantly. after hunting for most of 34 years. I have had my fair share of bad shots due to of all things, a twig, gust of wind, another hunter firing just before I did and scaring the deer just as I squoze the trigger. all of these made for a messing shot placement. I recovered most of those deer but a few of them I could not. one was a huge 6X6 elk in northern Idaho. I was sick. I have come to realize that excrement happens when you are afield. I have also been the one that had to take the follow up shot to dispatch the animal not hit well. I understand the worst can happen at any second in time. I treat that part our sport with great reverence. the fast/quick/ethical harvest. which leads into a tread I refused to comment on the other day about head shots being ethical or not. now, that behind me, I believe you have to realize there are environmental issues/conditions out of your control, you ammo is the best you can make, the rifle is the best you can afford, the equipment is the best you can afford at the time. then a gust of wind blows your shot wide left or right or an updraft blows your cross canyon shot 3" high and you inflict a non-fatal wound. I know these things happen. they have happened to me and more than a few of the hunters I have guided. understanding that you can not beat mother nature is going to help you understand that when bad things happen in the field it was not you personally. It was a calamity of circumstances that you could not control. Do your best to rectify the bad shot, and roll with it. if that wounded animal dies out of your reach , then wolves, coyotes, cougar, bear, or any other scavenger will eat, live and survive now that the animal that got away now is their food and keeps them alive to live on and helps the land have balance. Everything that goes on--on this earth is for a reason and has purpose. Do not worry too much about it. Just be the best you can, do the best you can, and have the same attitude as the match.. you will get the animal you are destined to get next time. it might be an hour or two away or it could be next morning. You just be the best, most ethical hunter you can be. We are human, as such, we are not perfect. we are the best we can be at any given second, minute, hour, day that we can be.
FJH IV

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

ALL of my rifles are hunters first and foremost. One is a full custom 6.5-06AI, one is a custom put together from factory parts. The full custom has a Timney trigger, one Marlin has a Wild West Guns Happy Trigger. The rest wear factory barrels and have factory triggers, although I've tuned and/or adjusted most of them. Scopes are mix of new and secondhand, variable and fixed. My most expensive scope is a used $350 Leupold I sent back to the factory for a knob and new reticle, brining the total cost to about $500-$600. The rest are all under $200, most in the $160 area. Scope powers run from fixed 4x to variables up to 14.5x.

My local range goes to 600 yards and I'm comfortable using what I have at that range. Multiple rifles, including 257 Roberts, 6.5-06AI, .280 Rem, 7mm RM, .30-06 and .338WM have been used to hit clay pigeons on the 600-yard berm, some with 40-80% hit rates.

A coworker suggested I buy a Nightforce and i just laughed. What the heck do I need one of those for? I don't shoot past 600 yards.

I'm currently in the (very slow) process of building a Savage 111 with a mag face bolt head into something else, the 'else' yet to be determined. (Discarded the rusted and pitted 7mm RM barrel a few days ago.) The action has been Cerakoted graphite black, I plan to reuse the birch stock and get a match grade barrel. When I'm done I expect to have about $700 in it. I already have a Nikon scope waiting, 3-9x.

Will it win any matches? Probably not. It will be 'just another hunter'.