Not enough FPS to create the energy needed for that range. Shot a bull last year with a 130 Scirocco at 231 yds and broke both shoulders.
Bullet failure 130 grain nosler partition with 6.5 creedmoor
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antelopedundee
Well-Known Member
Hang around a game processing place for a day and see the shot to hell stuff that gets brought in.
man1galvan
New Member
Nosler Partitions is an excellent bullet to use an elk but 130gr has it's limitations. I would never use nothing less than 180gr for elk on any caliber.
Rhino Hunter
Well-Known Member
You ask "So should I blame the 6.5 creedmoor as being too light for cow elk or the 130 grain nosler partition???"
I don't think you can "blame" either.
IMO...it's NOT a bullet failure unless you have real proof. The proof is in the bullet, but it hasn't been found because of the way the animal was disassembled in the field. Without the bullet it's speculation.
I applaud the OP for raising and teaching his children to be hunters. I wish there were more people like that.
Elk are big tough som' bitches and they can soak up a lot of lead, from much larger cartridges. I personally use a .300 Winnie with 200 gr TBBC for elk. I think a 6.5 CM is awfully light for elk, unless you have the experience and ability to place the bullet perfectly every time you pull the trigger. Unfortunately that didn't happen in this case.
IMHO I think you were under-gunned, with a young shooter, for the game being hunted at the range the shot was taken. (No disrespect intended to anybody.)
I don't think you can "blame" either.
IMO...it's NOT a bullet failure unless you have real proof. The proof is in the bullet, but it hasn't been found because of the way the animal was disassembled in the field. Without the bullet it's speculation.
I applaud the OP for raising and teaching his children to be hunters. I wish there were more people like that.
Elk are big tough som' bitches and they can soak up a lot of lead, from much larger cartridges. I personally use a .300 Winnie with 200 gr TBBC for elk. I think a 6.5 CM is awfully light for elk, unless you have the experience and ability to place the bullet perfectly every time you pull the trigger. Unfortunately that didn't happen in this case.
IMHO I think you were under-gunned, with a young shooter, for the game being hunted at the range the shot was taken. (No disrespect intended to anybody.)
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140 Berger with 48 grains of RL26. Work up but that gets the MV up there and punishing. Or 143 ELDX with same powder. I'm pushing just under 3000 FPS with the 140 Bergers.
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44hunter45
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I agree a newbie on a guided hunt should be carrying at least a 30. I started all my three sons on the 6.5 Swede here in Idaho and we stacked up the meat. Since this is the Long Range Hunting Forum I will hold my hat in my hand and say too often you can get a lot closer.
My longest witnessed Elk kill is 461 yards with a 264 WM. We used a highly frangible GameKing 140 BT. At that range it worked perfectly on a neck shot on this bedded cow. My son is a surgeon. This rig is all bipod and 30mm VX-3i 4.5-14X50 but it is nearing time for a new barrel. I am going to take it to a 1-8 26 inch on the next barrel.
My Swede now sports a 26 inch 1-7 Kreiger. I load nothing smaller than 140 grain in it and most of the time it packs 156 Norma Vulcan or 160 Hornady RN. It is currently getting re-stocked for my Granddaughter's debut in a couple of years.
I have played the 6.5 game for decades and I've never seen the need for all the newer 6.5s other than what the gun writers and the manufacturers have created. Having said that, if your 6.5 is under penetrating, something is wrong. Pondoro killed African Elephants with 160 RNs in a 6.5x54 Mannlicher. Think about that. Those bullets were running at around 2350 fps and brained elephants.
Here in North Idaho most elk are killed inside 200. Most of mine have been in timber inside 75. I've taken them with the 140 GameKing in 264WM and 6.5 Swede and with 180 Speer BT in .30-06. Neither of these are premiums but will kill well even when overdriven for their engineering. I've also used Partitions, Grand Slams, TBBCs, Swifts, Corelokts, GameKings, etc. Any cheap bullet will kill when placed well. The most expensive bullet will not kill when placed poorly. Remember that you need to understand the performance of your chosen bullet all the way down to about 1800 fps if you are going to poke at long ranges. Those conditions favor the more frangible bullets.
Here's what I've learned about elk. If your first bullet goes true it's easy. If your first bullet does not go true you better be prepared to pour in the lead. When an elk realizes its shot before it dies it can make your job very difficult. This is true no matter what rifle you are using.
260 is better than a creedmoor,still at 325 yards don't think it would go through the shoulder.Should have made a lung shot. I think if you're stuck on the creedmoor,jump up to a 140 gr. There's a good many choices out there,but most of Make a lung shot
COBHEAD
Member
In 2013 I shot this buck pictured at 300 yards with 300RUM 180gr Nosler Partition. Slightly quartering away. Shot for offside shoulder. Buck Mule kicked like a heart shot reaction. Had NO blood, NO Hair, NO Nothing. Searched for 2 days with still nothing. Morning of day 3 found him alone, limping and I was able to kill him.
Inspection found that the original shot impacted 3 ribs behind shoulder mid level. Deflected off of rib without breaking it and only cutting the skin for 3" toward shoulder, exited, the enter rear of shoulder cutting open the shoulder for 10" about 1" deep and wide. The wound was sered and no blood down the leg.
I was sharing this story with a fella and before I could tell him the ammo used, He injected NOSLER PARTITION. He went to tell me of a failure his buddy had of the bullet fragmenting in flight and peppering the Deer.
I called Joe at Nosler to see what may have happened, to no avail.
I heard 2 weeks ago that Nosler is no longer going to produce NP.
I now shoot Remington Premier Ultra Bonded Core Lokt and Federal Trophy Copper.
I will NEVER shoot NP again.
Inspection found that the original shot impacted 3 ribs behind shoulder mid level. Deflected off of rib without breaking it and only cutting the skin for 3" toward shoulder, exited, the enter rear of shoulder cutting open the shoulder for 10" about 1" deep and wide. The wound was sered and no blood down the leg.
I was sharing this story with a fella and before I could tell him the ammo used, He injected NOSLER PARTITION. He went to tell me of a failure his buddy had of the bullet fragmenting in flight and peppering the Deer.
I called Joe at Nosler to see what may have happened, to no avail.
I heard 2 weeks ago that Nosler is no longer going to produce NP.
I now shoot Remington Premier Ultra Bonded Core Lokt and Federal Trophy Copper.
I will NEVER shoot NP again.
Soun
Sounds more like you nicked him than a problem with NP bullet.
I think this is a cartridge failure but only because the cartridge was employed at its limits of range and velocity on the media it struck. At 325 yds, with a 6.5CM, I'm guessing there is barely enough energy and velocity for sufficient penetration on a shoulder/leg bone. That is a very hard target. At 200 yds, it's probably a doable shot. (BTW, are you referring to a 125gr NP?) Did you recover any of the bullets? What did they look like?
The 6.5 CM is not a magical killing cartridge at all ranges in all conditions on all media, in my opinion. If the shot was placed in the heart/lungs at that range, it would have probably would have been a killing shot. I've killed elk DRT with my 260 and a 130 gr TSX at 125 paces. I'd hesitate beyond 250 with that combo. I'd shoot a moose with it too but still respect the range I'm shooting at, as well as shot presentation. And I would only go for a shoulder/leg shot with that combo at close range, like within a 100, but that's my judgement. Safest shot is always heart/lung. I'd recommend going for heart/lung shot with that combo and you shouldn't be too disappointed. I would suggest keeping ranges to within 300 as well to ensure you have enough 'ethical' energy for an elk. On deer? Shoot away as far as you are capable!!
The 6.5 CM is not a magical killing cartridge at all ranges in all conditions on all media, in my opinion. If the shot was placed in the heart/lungs at that range, it would have probably would have been a killing shot. I've killed elk DRT with my 260 and a 130 gr TSX at 125 paces. I'd hesitate beyond 250 with that combo. I'd shoot a moose with it too but still respect the range I'm shooting at, as well as shot presentation. And I would only go for a shoulder/leg shot with that combo at close range, like within a 100, but that's my judgement. Safest shot is always heart/lung. I'd recommend going for heart/lung shot with that combo and you shouldn't be too disappointed. I would suggest keeping ranges to within 300 as well to ensure you have enough 'ethical' energy for an elk. On deer? Shoot away as far as you are capable!!
I wouldn't take a 400 yd shot on an elk with a 6.5 CM. That's pushing the limits of the cartridge in my opinion. I'd settle on a 300 yd shot to the heart/lungs. I'd also consider using a 130 NP. Or 130TSX. But you need to make sure your impact velocity above 2000 fps to be sure the bullets perform properly. That limits your effective range to about 300 - 350 at the outer limits. You could go with a frangible bullet like an ELDX which extends your range but then you want to place that bullet in the heart/lung area. In my opinion, to be ethical, I'd keep the 6.5 CM for elk to within 300 and be very careful with shot placement.
