Would floating this barrel help me? (A newb's first post)

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by GABR13L, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. GABR13L

    GABR13L Active Member

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    I recently found this forum and have spent 3-4 days reading it for hours! I can't thank you guys enough for the time you've put into this site! I've been hunting and shooting since I was old enough to lift a gun, and even though the subject has always fascinated me, I've never truly known much about long range shooting. I've learned so much here... it's unreal!

    My current deer rifle is an out-of-box Winchester Model 70 Shadow in .30-06. I got it in 2000 and I've always had it zeroed at 150 yards (true long range shooting isn't very feasible where I usually hunt). I had babies born starting a few years ago and it's really put my shooting time down... so this rifle has MAYBE had 30-40 rounds put through it - total.

    I have so many questions to ask you guys, but I'm trying to find as many answers as I can on the forums on my own before I take up yalls' time with questions that have already been addressed. Here's one thing that I can't seem to find out, and I know it's probably a total newbie question, but here goes:

    Since my rifle has a composite stock/forearm (not wood), would I see improvement in accuracy by floating the barrel? Or is floating really only beneficial to wood rifles?

    Again, I'm very excited about finding this site, and I cannot thank you guys enough for your time. From what I've read at this point, I've come to respect several of the senior members already! My current goal is 1000 yard accuracy, even if it's just milk jugs. (On a side note, what's the general consensus of a .30-06 being effective on white tails at 1000 yards?) Thanks for any insight you guys can give me regarding my .30-06... I'd really like to tweak it to be able to do some amazing things.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  2. tjonh2001

    tjonh2001 Well-Known Member

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    welcome to the site. i hope you have a strong marriage this gets addicting. as far as your barrel goes you want to let the barrel f;oat on its own anything that touches it will affect the repeatability of it.
    30-06 AS A DEER RIFLE IF YOU DID THE RIGHT SET UP YOU COULD GET OUT THERE. I LOOKED UP ON EXBAL A FEDERAL 150 GR BULLET I THNK IT WAS POWER SHOK. THE GUN ONLY HAS 650 LBSOF ENERGY AT 650 YARDS THAT MAX TO KILL A DEER. IF YOU WENT TO A VLD BULLET YOU WILL BE ABLE TO EXTEND YUOR RANGE. THIS WILL MEAN YOU WILL BE RELOADING.. GOOD LUCK DONT WORRY ABOUT ASKING QUESTIONS THAT WHY WE ARE HERE...
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008

  3. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    The stocks on that series of gun isin't as bad as some , though it ain't great. Generaly what I have found is that the vast majority of factroy guns can benifit from a good bedding job and free floating the barrel. Now seeing that you have had the gun for this long and have hunted with it I'm pretty sure that the barrel wasen't broke in properly seeing that you have only a minimal amout of rounds through it.

    My advice would be to first , adjust the trigger a bit lighter as I'm sure its in the 5-7lb range unless its been adjusted since it was bought. After that I'd bed it then after the bedding is dried free float the barrel. These are three things the avaerag guy thats semi handy can do at home for under $50. After all that get yourself a couple boxes of cheap ammo and a good cleaning set and head to the range to shoot and break in the barrel. After the barrelis brkoe in and fouling less that it was get a couple differant boxes of ammo that you would like to shoot and find what the gun wants to eat the best. Several companies make match quality ammo for the 30-06 using either 168gr or 175gr Sierra Match King bullets ,either of these bullet run out of the 30-06 at modern pressures will make it to 1000yds accurately. For shooting deer at 1K I'd use at least the 175gr SMK or 180gr Ballistic tip.
     
  4. tjonh2001

    tjonh2001 Well-Known Member

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    The One Thing To Remember Is That You Have A Synthetic Stock. They Are Injected Molded. These Are Designed To Release From Sticky Things, Meaning That If You Put Bedding In That Stock It Will Only Last So Long. If You Are Going To Do That Spend Alittle Money And Change The Stock To Laminate Or Fiberglass. Ther Are Alot Of Stocks Out There That Will Cost Around 150 Used. Then Bed The Rifle. If You Do The Other Thing That James Was Sying You Will Have Alot Better Chance At Those 1000 Yard Shots...
     
  5. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    you can make the bedding work in those molded stock but it takes a little more work with the dremal tools and the understanding on what a mechanical lock is and how to make them into the bedding area. But you right , you can get a decinet stock for a very reasonable price. The Hogue over molded stocks can be had Piller bedded for just under $100 and a full length bedding block for around $180 (dealer cost) both of wich are good upgrades from what you have.

    BUT , like I said if your kinda handy and have a person to walk you through the process doing your own bedding job isin't that big of a deal , owrst case you glue the action to the stock and you have to destroy the stock to get it loose , what better reason to get a new stock !!:p
     
  6. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    GABR:
    James is right, for your stage of the game you can do three things. He's also right about the order.

    1. trigger job. check it and have it set between 2 and 3 pounds.

    2. action bedding. You can do this yourself, if you search this site you will find instructions. If you can't find them here, just google it and you'll find lots of instruction.

    3. float the barrel. once bedded, then float your barrel.

    There are a lot of people here that are a lot smarter and more experienced than me, but I think most would agree with this. The basis for me to say this is that I've gone through the very same thing. My rifle started out as a Remington 700 mountain rifle -- synthetic stock, stainless steel action and barrel. the above steps are what I did and it managed to improve my accuracy some and I didn't invest that much money. Ultimately though, I bought an HS Precision stock and have sent the gun off to the gunsmith to have it rebarreled (and all the various action work that goes along with rebarreling)

    My final two cents will be on the efficacy of the '06 as a 1000yard gun on deer. I'd counsel you against that. 650 yards would be a good outside range for that cartridge. With a 1000yard shot, given the remaining energy, you would have little room for error in terms of shot placement. But, like I said, that's just my two cents.

    Good luck and have fun!
     
  7. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    GABR13L,
    Take that junk stock and give it to somebody you don't like,with a smile and a handshake.Go straight to your local gunshop,and order a HS Precision stock with all the bells and whistles in the varmint style.
    This will negate all the debate about floating your barrel,it will be done by the stock for you.
    You may have to special order the inlet size for your barrel,if it isn't a heavy barrel.
    If you can't order the correct size inlet,you may have to settle for the sporter style,but there's nothing wrong with those anyway,still has aluminium bedding block,floated barrel and nice semi flat fore end for bipod use.
    I think the effective range of the 30-06 is somewhat less than 1000 yds,unless you use a projectile like the J-36 ,we must remember that TARGET bullets are exactly for that purpose,TARGETS.
    Also,you need to use a bullet with high BC,something like the Nosler 200gr Accubond,BC .588,and I don't think the 30-06 can push it fast enough for that range.So I would keep my shots inside 650 yds just because you don't want wounded game on your conscience.
    Good Luck with whatever you decide!
    MagnumManiac
    gun)
     
  8. GABR13L

    GABR13L Active Member

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    First of all, you guys have been very helpful and I thank each of you. And I just wanna say first off that I completely understand all of your points about trying for deer at 1000yds. I was more curious than anything, and really only planned on slaying milk jugs that far out ;) LOL, and yes tjon, my wife is very supportive of my hobby.

    I do have 2 followup questions for you guys:

    1) Can you expand on the concept of "finding a cartridge that your rifle likes"? Or point me to a place where I can learn about the right way to do this. Do I use only the bullets I wanna hunt with, or do I use different brands, weights, styles (i.e. match loads), ect? I do not reload at this point, so I'd be limited to commercial ammo (but reloading is something I'd like to get into at some point).

    2) Can you guys give me a little bit more info on this stock replacement suggestion? Not that I am arguing with you - only trying to understand gun mechanics better - what is wrong with the factory stock on my rifle? Would an replacement HS Precision stock really be that noticeable of an upgrade - is it money well spent? What is the difference between the Sporter and Varmint models of the HS Precision stocks? I can't tell on their website. What is aluminum bedding (do you still pour glass on top of that)? Since the gun has had no custom work done to it out-of-box, I could just order the one for a Mod 70 and it would fit, right? Also, another newb question, but if I have a .30-06 Sprg, then my rifle is long action, right?
     
  9. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Seeing that you don't reload , whats ment by finding a round that your gun likes is this , all loads produce barrel vibration andn this varries from load to load , maker to maker in some guns as little a 1/2 a grain will make a big differance in this vibration , this is directly linked to accuracy Handloaders adjust their load "tune" so that their gun finds an area that it shoot accurately at. Since you don't reload yet you will have to try several differant factroy offerings to find one that your gun likes the best , some guns will like hotter loads where some will like lighter loads , even guns with consecutive serial numbers will shoot two differant types of ammo differantly. As to the kind to shoot , well if you shooting long range targets its better to shoot a quality match bullet like those found in the Federal Gold Metal Match and so on. The Hornady ammo offered in both lightmagnum and custom is good stuff as is the Black Hills , you gonna want to shoot a bullet with a bit higher BC , the 30-06 will run a 168gr bullet out fast enough from a 1-10 twsit barrel to shoot to 1000yds , the heavier 175-180 bullet will shot a little bit better at the realy long range. You can get into reloading with a pretty good kit from several differant places , all the major makers have them.

    As for the stock , well the thing about the factory stock is that its cheaply made and very flemsey , not that a cheap stock can't be made to shoot but its alot cheaper (if your paying for it) to bed and float the current stick. The better stocks like HS are made from laid up fiberglass around a stiff glass filled foam with a rigid aluminum core so its very stiff and stabill. As for being money well spent , well it certainly is is you plan to build on this gun later , if you plan to sell it then no you will be taking a loss on it.
    the differance between the sporter and varmint stock is generaly that the Varmint stocks have a wider forend and a larger barrel channel to accept a thicker barrel. The wider forend is more stabill when shot from the bags and also aids in stiffening the stock.
    The aluminum bedding block aids in making the stock to action fit much more stabill and a much stronger bedding area , and yes its generaly a good idea to glass bed these stock also to make the stock to action fit skin tight.

    Your gun is a long action and most likely a new controle round feed , this gun can be built into just about anything you want
     
  10. tjonh2001

    tjonh2001 Well-Known Member

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    everything that james said is spot on...
    if i were you i would change the stock because of the gun that you hve. do these little upgrades you will see the differance after you are done. the reason that i would do this is because yo can always change the caliber later. the thing that most new shooters need is true long range practise. go shoot the crap out of it and when your ready to change to a different more flat shooting caliber you will only need to change the barrel and have the action trued. you have a great start to a rifle you just need to fine tune it... small changes arent expencive its when you have to do it all at once...
     
  11. bkondeff

    bkondeff Well-Known Member

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    Advice from a Novice, who was a rookie about a year ago. There is a lot to cover, I started to make a huge response but decided to cut it down. ​

    First, if you don't have at least $500 to dump in this you aren't giving yourself much of a chance. If you have $2000 or more then you are in good shape.​

    Start by getting a basic ballistics software program and get an idea of how different loads perform over distance, driven at various velocities. For deer I'd recommed a rule of a min of 1000 ft lbs of energy to find your max distance for a given load. I use PointBlank.​

    The items mentioned (trigger, action, barrel) is where to start and hopefully can cost $200 or less. Then spend the $$ to buy a starter reloading kit $250, and some basic supplies(powder, bullets, primers). You can do a lot to improve accuracy with load development and at the same time after your initial investment in components your cost per round will be about 1/3 of retail for premium rounds. If you like doing this you will want to shoot a lot, so over the long run the cost of bullets will be less. Now, many people would read this a rush to post that you will get addicted and spend a lot of money buying newer and better stuff, they are right.​

    I would get a good manual on reloading and read about the basics. Others can probably recommend better, I'd say if you have a favorite class of bullets, i/e Nosler or Sierra, then buy their's as they all have basic reloading included. Once you have that down then I'd recommend buying "Precision Shooting, Reloading Guide" and read the first and last chapters. This will focus you on a few key ways to really improve accuracy (i/e bullet seating and how it lines up your bullet into the barrel). At that point you should have your gun done and you can then fireform some brass, then start developing a load. ​

    You will need to make your gun shoot at or under 1" groups at 100 yards before you can start poking out very far if you hope to hit a deer in the vitals or even milk jugs. ​

    I have managed to get 4 guns all shooting about 1.5 MOA out of the box, with just trigger jobs, down to MOA with just basic load development. Actually one is actually shooting .5 moa, and it's a thin barreled Remington Mtn Rifle. With the more advanced idea's in the Precision Shooting I think I can get the rest down even farther.​

    Have fun, I am!! gun)​
     
  12. GABR13L

    GABR13L Active Member

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    where can i get that guide? Is it a book or an e-book for download?
     
  13. Frazer28

    Frazer28 Member

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    Another suggestion from a new guy, watch Ebay for a stock. I picked up a laminated one last year for my Super shadow for $90 delivered. It was a factory take off and needed a little dremel work to fit, but after bedding etc I am pleased, not bad for under a $100. Accuracy did improve quite a bit. Just my $.02
     
  14. bkondeff

    bkondeff Well-Known Member

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    It is a book. I purchased mine at Sportsmans Warehouse. A Google search showed it available at Amazon and Midway, both $22.95 new and both had max star user ratings.