Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Wildcat,
I never said a high BC bullet will shoot "BETTER" at long range then a low BC bullet. What I Said was that in unknown down range shooting conditions, making consistant hits on small targets will be easier with the high BC bullet. Has nothing to do with a bullets accuracy potential to be honest.
I stand by my statements then and now, there is no way a 300 WSM will produce 4000 fps velocity with a 125 gr bullet without breaking 70,000 psi in the process which I feel is not acceptable with that case design and certainly not responsible to recommend when there are so many uneducated shooters using this chambering in factory rifles that probably should not even be loaded over 60,000 psi. That is what I said then and that is what I said now, nothing has changed.
As far as my wildcat rounds, The ones based on the RUM case are loaded to a point that is probably around the 65,000 psi level. I know this because tests have been done and shown that the Rem RUM case will handle 65,000 psi and offer 4 to 5 firings at this level before primer pockets loosen to the point they should not be reused for gas leakage concerns.
My wildcats based on the LAPUA case are designed to be used with the Lapua brand 338 Lapua case, not the soft Norma case which is very similiar to the Rem RUM case in pressures. That said, I developed my load data using both brass to give me a base line on pressure. My standard loads for my 7mm AM, 300 AX and 338 AX will result in Norma cases lasting 4 to 5 firings per case, just as my RUM based wildcats.
I recommend using Lapua cases because this is not even a slight work out for this case which is dramatically stronger then any case out there and makes the WSM case look like a tin pop can in comparision when talking about quality and case head strength.
My wildcat loadings are right where they should be for the appropriate parent case they are based on so do not tell me that I boost my chamber pressure on my wildcats to the same level as this example because that is a totally uneducated comment on your part and simply untrue.
I can post that my 270 AM will drive a 169.5 gr ULD RBBT to 3400 fps and that my 7mm AM will drive a 200 gr ULD RBBT to 3300 fps both in 30" barrels and never get any question to this in any way. WHY? Because that is realistic velocity performance for each of these parent cases.
With this example, 4000 fps with a 125 gr bullet is not in the realistic velocity range of the WSM case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see no hypocrisy at all here. Please clear it up for me.............
As far as the "Chamber" that has been designed, what exactly is a new design about it. He drew up a tight chamber for a 300 WSM, put it in a 1-15 twist barrel and pours the powder in until he hit 4000 fps, this is not exactly a new cartridge design as you speak of. Its what every custom rifle builder does when they draw up a reamer for a factory chambering, nothing more, nothing less, no magic here to be seen from what I can tell.
Its funny that if there are so many others using this special chambering(300 WSM????) that you would hear more about it. THe only time I have heard any reports on it were from this one person. That would be like hearing the only information about the Allen Magnums from me, but instead you can hear from dozens of shooters on here alone that will tell you about more performance then I report on out of my own rifles and wildcats.
My comments toward you were not ment to offend and were not ment with aggression, but your reply certainly was not offered in the same tone. First off all, rifle building technology even 15 years ago is so outdated by todays standards that it hard is worth comparing someone that has was building rifles 35 years ago to the rifle building practices being used now.
You make a dramatic point that he builds rifles for 1000 yard BR shooters. Well I build rifles for extreme range varmint and big game hunters where in many cases 1000 yards is relatively short range and these rifles are used in conditions that make the 1000 yard BR course look like day wrapped up in a warm fuzzy blanket!!!
I have no doubt the man can build an accurate rifle. As mentioned before, I have no problem with his claims, MY PROBLEM IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOME UNEDUCATED PERSON WITH A FACTORY 300 WSM READS THESE VELOCITY REPORTS BUT FORGETS TO READ THAT ITS FOR ONLY CUSTOM RIFLES..................
I guess I look at things much different then you, I have to because its my *** if something happens to my customers or to anyone that reads my reports on the wildcats I design. You have to take responsibility for what you put in words and think about what MAY happen with that information even though you did not intend for it to be taken or used in the way it was.
If you see me as a hypocrit then thats your right but everyone that knows me in person and on this site know that is hardly the case.
I have no doubt your rifle will shoot and I would be surpised if you do not get 4000 fps, it will be that or die trying from what I have taken from your last comments as you seem a bit hell bent to prove this as fact.
My comment to you is simple, if every rifle out there chambered for this round can not safely use these recommended loads, it is not responsible in my opinion to promote such load data.
Since it seems you feel the need to insult my experience in rifle building when I guess we know where we stand with each other. My dealing with you in the past I felt were nothing but professional and in some cases far more professional then I would have ever needed to be. In fact I took it pretty hard on the chin in one instance for you but it appears that warrents no real respect in how I dealt with you in the past.
Suprises me a bit to be honest but like you said, I do not know you and you do not know me...............
Enough said, will be interested to hear your results when you get the rifle, I am sure you will have a great shooting rifle, I hope you go with a slower twist barrel though so your not wedded to those stubs. Sometime down the road, you may realize that those of us that offered our opinion were not HATERS, we were just trying to save you some wasted time and money.
Good Shooting,
Kirby Allen(50)
I never said a high BC bullet will shoot "BETTER" at long range then a low BC bullet. What I Said was that in unknown down range shooting conditions, making consistant hits on small targets will be easier with the high BC bullet. Has nothing to do with a bullets accuracy potential to be honest.
I stand by my statements then and now, there is no way a 300 WSM will produce 4000 fps velocity with a 125 gr bullet without breaking 70,000 psi in the process which I feel is not acceptable with that case design and certainly not responsible to recommend when there are so many uneducated shooters using this chambering in factory rifles that probably should not even be loaded over 60,000 psi. That is what I said then and that is what I said now, nothing has changed.
As far as my wildcat rounds, The ones based on the RUM case are loaded to a point that is probably around the 65,000 psi level. I know this because tests have been done and shown that the Rem RUM case will handle 65,000 psi and offer 4 to 5 firings at this level before primer pockets loosen to the point they should not be reused for gas leakage concerns.
My wildcats based on the LAPUA case are designed to be used with the Lapua brand 338 Lapua case, not the soft Norma case which is very similiar to the Rem RUM case in pressures. That said, I developed my load data using both brass to give me a base line on pressure. My standard loads for my 7mm AM, 300 AX and 338 AX will result in Norma cases lasting 4 to 5 firings per case, just as my RUM based wildcats.
I recommend using Lapua cases because this is not even a slight work out for this case which is dramatically stronger then any case out there and makes the WSM case look like a tin pop can in comparision when talking about quality and case head strength.
My wildcat loadings are right where they should be for the appropriate parent case they are based on so do not tell me that I boost my chamber pressure on my wildcats to the same level as this example because that is a totally uneducated comment on your part and simply untrue.
I can post that my 270 AM will drive a 169.5 gr ULD RBBT to 3400 fps and that my 7mm AM will drive a 200 gr ULD RBBT to 3300 fps both in 30" barrels and never get any question to this in any way. WHY? Because that is realistic velocity performance for each of these parent cases.
With this example, 4000 fps with a 125 gr bullet is not in the realistic velocity range of the WSM case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see no hypocrisy at all here. Please clear it up for me.............
As far as the "Chamber" that has been designed, what exactly is a new design about it. He drew up a tight chamber for a 300 WSM, put it in a 1-15 twist barrel and pours the powder in until he hit 4000 fps, this is not exactly a new cartridge design as you speak of. Its what every custom rifle builder does when they draw up a reamer for a factory chambering, nothing more, nothing less, no magic here to be seen from what I can tell.
Its funny that if there are so many others using this special chambering(300 WSM????) that you would hear more about it. THe only time I have heard any reports on it were from this one person. That would be like hearing the only information about the Allen Magnums from me, but instead you can hear from dozens of shooters on here alone that will tell you about more performance then I report on out of my own rifles and wildcats.
My comments toward you were not ment to offend and were not ment with aggression, but your reply certainly was not offered in the same tone. First off all, rifle building technology even 15 years ago is so outdated by todays standards that it hard is worth comparing someone that has was building rifles 35 years ago to the rifle building practices being used now.
You make a dramatic point that he builds rifles for 1000 yard BR shooters. Well I build rifles for extreme range varmint and big game hunters where in many cases 1000 yards is relatively short range and these rifles are used in conditions that make the 1000 yard BR course look like day wrapped up in a warm fuzzy blanket!!!
I have no doubt the man can build an accurate rifle. As mentioned before, I have no problem with his claims, MY PROBLEM IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOME UNEDUCATED PERSON WITH A FACTORY 300 WSM READS THESE VELOCITY REPORTS BUT FORGETS TO READ THAT ITS FOR ONLY CUSTOM RIFLES..................
I guess I look at things much different then you, I have to because its my *** if something happens to my customers or to anyone that reads my reports on the wildcats I design. You have to take responsibility for what you put in words and think about what MAY happen with that information even though you did not intend for it to be taken or used in the way it was.
If you see me as a hypocrit then thats your right but everyone that knows me in person and on this site know that is hardly the case.
I have no doubt your rifle will shoot and I would be surpised if you do not get 4000 fps, it will be that or die trying from what I have taken from your last comments as you seem a bit hell bent to prove this as fact.
My comment to you is simple, if every rifle out there chambered for this round can not safely use these recommended loads, it is not responsible in my opinion to promote such load data.
Since it seems you feel the need to insult my experience in rifle building when I guess we know where we stand with each other. My dealing with you in the past I felt were nothing but professional and in some cases far more professional then I would have ever needed to be. In fact I took it pretty hard on the chin in one instance for you but it appears that warrents no real respect in how I dealt with you in the past.
Suprises me a bit to be honest but like you said, I do not know you and you do not know me...............
Enough said, will be interested to hear your results when you get the rifle, I am sure you will have a great shooting rifle, I hope you go with a slower twist barrel though so your not wedded to those stubs. Sometime down the road, you may realize that those of us that offered our opinion were not HATERS, we were just trying to save you some wasted time and money.
Good Shooting,
Kirby Allen(50)
