What a joke....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bailey1474, Sep 25, 2007.

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  1. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    I've been pretty busy lately so I haven't been around but this caught my eye this morning. Go to www.6mmbr.com (a website which I look @ everyday and usually enjoy) and scroll down to the accurateshooter.com bulletin. Read the article about Franklin's 4000 fps varminter. Make sure you look really close @ the target!!! Are you freakin' kidding me!!!!! Sorry Jason, but this doesn't do much for the credability of your website. I don't know Richard but salesmanship like that would prompt me to keep one hand on my wallet when he was around.

    “The 300 Varminter is built around the 300 WSM case. In good custom actions such as the BAT or Nesika this round will deliver 4000+ FPS with the 125gr Nosler Ballistic tips and a bit more with the 110gr Hornady V-Max. Remington-action rifles will handle velocities up to around 3800 to 3900 FPS with these bullets."

    I also wonder what kind of pressures this guy is running. Sounds to me like he is promoting unsafe loads. I bet you load the brass once, maybe twice and pitch it.

    Am I alone on this???
     
  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I am with you on this one Bill......

    The 300 RUM will be hard pressed to break 4K fps with a 125 in a 30" barrel. It will do it but at very top end pressures. This in my opinion is very dangerous recommendations he is giving.

    I especially like the comment written on the target, what does it say, 0.162" at 100 yards = 1.62" at 1000 yards. That comment right there tells volumes of his experience at long range shooting. Hopefully soon he shoots at 1000 yards and lets us know how that piss ant 125 gr BT does at 1000 yards. Hopefully the bullet does not fly by a bird with gas problems because it will blow that bullet way out of a 1.620" group at 1000 yards.

    The rifle will shoot, I will give him that but as far as velocity and 1000 yard accuracy predictions, I think he speaks volumes as to his experience level.

    We had this discussion on here a while back I believe. Everyone pretty much agreed he was pushing things a bit to hard.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     

  3. lerch

    lerch <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    To be honest i am pretty surprised 6mm BR would put that on their site. I have been down the road of the super fast rounds and i know now what it takes to be lethal at 1K and it aint some little stubby bullet screaming through the atmosphere. I have also tried the 125gr BT's in a 300RUM and i could not get 4000fps out of a 26"bbl, i would love to see what pressures he is getting to fling those little suckers out there that quick


    ass



    take it easy
    steve
     
  4. James H

    James H Well-Known Member

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    Bill
    Good to see you posting again.
    Anyone around here have quickload.
    His target says 300 WSM, 125gr BT, 75gr VV 550, 210 primers and a 30" tube.
    I would like to know what quickload shows for velocity and pressure.
    James
     
  5. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    [​IMG]
     
  6. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    wonder if he uses a hammer to open his bolt or has some kind of hydraulic press?
     
  7. lerch

    lerch <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    I bet he uses a come along ratchet to lift that puppy open!!!!!!
     
  8. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    Wow. Just confirms my thoughts.
     
  9. Slopeshunter

    Slopeshunter Well-Known Member

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    :D :D :D :D :D
     
  10. James H

    James H Well-Known Member

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    Dick
    Thank you
    That is about what I expected if the truth wasn't being bent.
    Now to put things in perspective I do not remember the charge wt. but what is the pressure with vv n133 in a 6mm PPC at charge to get 3400+ fps with 68gr Barts ultras out of a 24 inch barrel, if its not too much trouble.
    I need to break down and get quickload myself.
    James
     
  11. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    James:

    Barts isn't listed so I subbed Berger 68 grain. This is only a screen shot of the data you requested. It's not
    anything I'd recommend, I just put in the data you requested.;)
    [​IMG]
     
  12. James H

    James H Well-Known Member

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    Dick
    Thank you.
    While those pressures are extremely high my point is there are many short range Benchrest shooters that routinely shoot loads at that pressure everyday.
    Now granted with the WSM you will have a lot more bolt thrust on the action which I am sure is why Richard is reccomending custom actions.
    FYI I was expecting about 72000 PSI for the PPC with those loads.
    As for the practicallity of shooting a 125 gr bullet at 4000+fps at long range, I have heard that there are places where the wind don't blow but it sure as hell aint here which makes the use of this combination impractical for 1000 yd shots, leastwise from my standpoint. However for running shots on coyotes at 300 to 400 yds it could increase odds some on getting a hit but if that's what I'm doing I'll take the 243 Win with 55gr BTs.
    Thanks again Dick.
    James
     
  13. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    I am deleting my posts. This thing turned "fugly" and personal and this is not what this board is about.

    I have some fault in that too.

    Recommend everyone else delet too.

    BH
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2007
  14. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    BH,

    What you say may have some trueth in it but to me +72,000 psi is still +72,000 psi. There is no way the WSM case is designed to handle that kind of pressure from its makers. WIll it take it, certainly but that is far over the safety margin of what the case is designed for and you have to agree with that.

    You can talk all you want about drift and drop numbers as well but there is a reason your shooting 210s in your WSM and not 125s at long range isn't there. Simply put, its easier to make consitant hits and small groups at long range with heavier higher BC bullets. Not to mention, most loads are more consistant with heavier bullets compared to lighter bullets as far as velocity spreads are concerned.

    Also, you or I or most on this board reading this realize the special features built into this rifle in custom receivers, chambers and such. There are unfortunately a bunch of semi educated shooters out there that own 300 WSM rifles, some in varmint type factory rifles that will read this and say, DAMN, I want that velocity and then they will try to do it.

    The same thing happened when the 257 STW came out. Some very irresponsible smiths, one in general was quoting the 257 STW as a 4100 fps round in a 28" barrel with the 100 gr XLC bullets. This simply is not a true representation of the round. I had dozens of customers order 257 STWs from me and many of them came back complaining that they were blowing primer pockets at anything over 3900 fps in a 28" barrel with the recommended loads this other smith recommended.

    Many of them were plenty pissed because they ran through an entire batch of brass with these supposed 4100 fps loads and bolt life was perfectly smooth, no pressure sign on the case head at all but when they went to reload the brass, all had primer pockets far to loose to reuse.

    All these were built on Rem 700 receivers so we both know that bolt life on a properly accurized and trued Rem 700 is not a good indicator of excessive pressure.

    It got to the point I was having so much trouble trying to straighten out my customers from what they had read by a mr. Ferguson down south with his 257 Hot Tomale that I even tried to call him. Never got ahold of him but finally got him to reply to an e-mail once. This was several years after he had the article about "his" wildcat printed talking about these velocities.

    His only comment was, "I load for shear performance, case life means nothing to me. If I get one firing at 4100 fps that is fine with me, cases are cheap and expandable so to answer your question, yes my 257 HT is a 4100 fps round in a 28" barrel."

    Just because you can does not mean you should.

    You make a reference to wildcats based on the Lapua chambered in the Rem 700. Not sure if you were referring to mine or not but I can tell you right now, with the properly designed chamber, you could easily load the Lapua up to put a serious strain on the Rem 700 receiver. But I will also say a properly trued Rem 700 is every bit as solid and strong as Wby MkV.

    My wildcats have been designed with such a min taper on them that you will run into extraction issues well before you get anywhere near the pressure limits that would be classified as dangerous in any Rem 700.

    I guess my point is this, in a specialized rifle, these pressures can be handled, I would still love to hear what the honest case life is with these loads, I suspect less then a couple firings.

    Offering this information to the masses is in my opinion irresponsible at best. Most will never read the mentionings of "If your using a Rem 700" compared to a custom receiver. All they read is a 300 WSM loaded to 4000 fps which can not be argued is producing pressures WAY over what the case was designed for.

    Just my opinion and we all have them. Just because you can does not mean its a good idea to do it.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
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