What’s up with Hornady’s reloading podcast?

[Heavyiron]

I have some difficulty with hornadys theology. They were so desperate in the early stages of the 6.5 creedmoor to get it above the 260 rem speeds that ammo was sent out. And it blew primers. There was a major ammo recall This shows how desperate they are to put their products above others and how disorganized they are. If Joyce Hornady were alive today, he would run the agitators off. This was once a great company that is being ruined with snake oil technology.

 

[biednick]

Litz dedicated an entire chapter to it in Vol III of his series. Said results were inconclusive.

It's worth noting that "inconclusive" means his test couldn't definitively say they do or don't affect precision. It's practically impossible to prove a negative, so if they don't work there will likely never be a conclusive result. Proving a negative requires showing the positive is not true in any case. As long as there's one combination of rifle, ammo, and conditions that hasn't been tested folks like Litz aren't going to conclusively say tuners don't work.

For the layman, "no one has shown they work when rigorously tested" is pretty close to "they don't work".

 

[Bucefal]

Isn't it wild how much conflicting info floats around, especially about reloading? Hope that wisdom tooth feels better soon.

 

[willfrye027]

I guess infomercials trumps experience! You stick to your infomercials, I stick to my experience!

Clearly you have not taken the time to listen or comprehend what hornady is trying to say. They are letting the cat out of the bag to the general public with information that has been known to government agencies and military for decades.

Experience and data trumps all, I'd agree. But I'm going to stick with Hornadys many thousands of rounds worth of data in controlled settings over some wallet groups posted here.

It's pretty easy to show what hornady is doing works. Show your 20-30 shot group in the node, and then one out of the node.

 

[asd9055]

Clearly you have not taken the time to listen or comprehend what hornady is trying to say. They are letting the cat out of the bag to the general public with information that has been known to government agencies and military for decades.

Experience and data trumps all, I'd agree. But I'm going to stick with Hornadys many thousands of rounds worth of data in controlled settings over some wallet groups posted here.

It's pretty easy to show what hornady is doing works. Show your 20-30 shot group in the node, and then one out of the node.

You are correct. I have not taken the time! If you read my initial reply early on, you would have read that! I will repeat! I do not watch infomercials! That's me! You do what you what you choose.
And I am seriously done with this!

 

[ObiWanKannoli]

It's most definitely a brand building tool, DUH.

But it's very far from an infomercial/ sales pitch. It's actually pretty uncommon for them to push/ pitch products on there and when they do they usually just slide it in, like "oh ya we make a gauge for that"

Not to mention AB came up with the same conclusion and they aren't selling anything other than information and ballistic solutions.

Sometimes believing in your gear is important to, confidence can be key. But that doesn't mean it actually works.

It's not an overt sales pitch of singular items, DUH.

It's a podcast that sells you Hornady beliefs, ideals, knowledge, and trust in their brand. The whole thing is based on making you a more confident consumer of hornady products by believing in the brand. Vortex does the same exact thing. Opportunity through education and showcase of knowledge to build trust in the brand.

 

[6.5x300 WBY]

Use what works for you!

This is the best quote for this thread.

Exactly

 

[Justice1327]

It's 100% correct. And completely in line with the results of the testing outdoor life published this week of their own independent test. It's also super easy to prove on your own, redo a ladder test 5 times and see if you find the same "node" even twice.

I do it all the time. Consistency is the answer.

 

[Taylorbok]

It's not an overt sales pitch of singular items, DUH.

It's a podcast that sells you Hornady beliefs, ideals, knowledge, and trust in their brand. The whole thing is based on making you a more confident consumer of hornady products by believing in the brand. Vortex does the same exact thing. Opportunity through education and showcase of knowledge to build trust in the brand.

Ok so you made it clear you know what brand building is, and we seem to agree that it's not a sales pitch and more of a broadcast of information and knowledge. If that sways you to their brand good for them, most of what they make is pretty decent (their brass is trash). Just because the purpose of the podcast is brand building does not negate their testing.

 

[ObiWanKannoli]

Ok so you made it clear you know what brand building is, and we seem to agree that it's not a sales pitch and more of a broadcast of information and knowledge. If that sways you to their brand good for them, most of what they make is pretty decent (their brass is trash). Just because the purpose of the podcast is brand building does not negate their testing.

I do, I do it for a living. Little confused by your comment though, I never said it negates their testing?

 

[Taylorbok]

I do, I do it for a living. Little confused by your comment though, I never said it negates their testing?

It's possibly I interpreted your comments in a way you did not intend.
I was taking away that you thought since they are "out to sell something" their testing was invalid, looking back you never said that you just pointed out that the podcast was a form of marketing.

 

[Justice1327]

Show us your 20 shot groups!

Here is my 45 shot fireforming load group.
Currently waiting for the weather to break so I can go out and test some more with changes and bullet and powder. Picking. about four powders, I'll stay about a half a grain off of Max and use 140 grain ballistic tip,

 

[stazmania]

If you want to understand the opposite of the hornady podcast findings. You tube believe the target videos. A good one to start with is the most current. There are nuggets of information that can be applied to any reloaders arsenal. These shooters fire multiple small groups over multiple distance and days as well as conditions. If you overlap all of the groups your sample size will be way greater than hornadays test criteria. And to win at these competitive levels the misinterpreted so called "group dispersion" including " flyers will need to be tiny when compared to honadys misspeaking examples. Not that everyone wants or needs this level of performance, but to conclude it is irrelevant based on "by comparison" a crude set of test results is why some advanced reloaders are calling bs

 

[Taylorbok]

If you want to understand the opposite of the hornady podcast findings. You tube believe the target videos. A good one to start with is the most current. There are nuggets of information that can be applied to any reloaders arsenal. These shooters fire multiple small groups over multiple distance and days as well as conditions. If you overlap all of the groups your sample size will be way greater than hornadays test criteria. And to win at these competitive levels the misinterpreted so called "group dispersion" including " flyers will need to be tiny when compared to honadys misspeaking examples. Not that everyone wants or needs this level of performance, but to conclude it is irrelevant based on "by comparison" a crude set of test results is why some advanced reloaders are calling bs

If you took the data from those BR matches and compared them to what Hornady is explaining I'd be willing to bet it falls right in line and follows their bell curve of dispersion, The groups are just smaller than what the guys at Hornady are playing with. If you listen to that podcast he even says "oh a couple groups got away on me" ...well did they or is that just the dispersion of the system, that big group was also something like .330"