Pros and Cons carbon fiber barrel vs steel barrel
- Thread starter shedhunt
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Benchmark carbon fiber is my choice for lightweight builds. Pencil barrel steel is a bad idea when running suppressors, so it's really the only way to go.
Other carbon makers just don't seem to be able to deliver the accuracy/precision of the benchmarks.
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Other carbon makers just don't seem to be able to deliver the accuracy/precision of the benchmarks.
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Slightly more apt to end up with poor precision from a carbon barrel than a plain-Jane steel barrel, has been my experience. A lot of carbon fiber wrapped barrels will shoot. But the more $heit you due to the steel barrel blank the bullet rides down, the more likely you are to end up with a turd. The proverbial tomato stake. I own 4 CFW barrels. 3 shoot and some of them required more load development work than I care for, prior to getting a bullet to shoot with decent precision. But I have one Bartlein CFW barrel that cost twice what a steel barrel costs, and shoots worse than a factory barrel. Larger than 1 moa.
If weight is your overwhelming priority, try a Benchmark CFW barrel. And hope it's a shooter. Other than that, I'd stick with a SS barrel.
I've also talked with a guy in the business that crosses paths with many clients shooting both CFW and plain steel barrels. His thoughts mimic my experiences. A bit more apt to end up with a turd if you go CFW, than just a plain steel barrel.
If weight is your overwhelming priority, try a Benchmark CFW barrel. And hope it's a shooter. Other than that, I'd stick with a SS barrel.
I've also talked with a guy in the business that crosses paths with many clients shooting both CFW and plain steel barrels. His thoughts mimic my experiences. A bit more apt to end up with a turd if you go CFW, than just a plain steel barrel.
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Check this out > https://www.longrangeonly.com/forum/threads/carbon-fiber-barrels-with-a-good-track-record.11541/
I am trying my first carbon wrapped barrel by CarbonSix on my full custom wildcat; build-in-progress.
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Here's what Alex Wheeler posted on another Forum. So here's another well experienced guy whose experiences match my own, and that of another well informed contact of mine:
"Personally I can't wait for the carbon trend to pass. I chamber a lot of them and while most of them shoot well, the rejection rate is off the charts compared to steel. Even though I chamber probably 10 to one steel to carbon, at the end of the year there will be far more problems with carbons than steel. In general, it's rare to get a bad steel barrel, if even one all year. And I'm chambering many hundreds every year. It's most disappointing to me because I hate building a rifle that someone struggles with. I think if you plan things out both ways, steel vs carbon you can get to a similar weight. Keep in mind a skinny steel barrel that weighs as much as a carbon is still all steel. I did a test a few years ago. Stiffness vs weight. I pulled out a bunch of barrels and supported them by the shank in the same place and hung a weight the same distance out from the breach and measured deflection. Now these were Proofs back then. I found that the defection of an equal weight carbon barrel was the same as an equal weight steel. If memory serves, a #3 fluted was as stiff as a Sendero light. I think they both weighted about 3.5 pounds. So there is no gain at all. The wrapping process can only induces stress, it can't reduce it. Just something to chew on. I don't mind chambering them, I always have them here getting chambered. Some guys really like them and I do not try to talk them out of them. I'm just so disappointed when someone struggles with one of my rifles."
"Personally I can't wait for the carbon trend to pass. I chamber a lot of them and while most of them shoot well, the rejection rate is off the charts compared to steel. Even though I chamber probably 10 to one steel to carbon, at the end of the year there will be far more problems with carbons than steel. In general, it's rare to get a bad steel barrel, if even one all year. And I'm chambering many hundreds every year. It's most disappointing to me because I hate building a rifle that someone struggles with. I think if you plan things out both ways, steel vs carbon you can get to a similar weight. Keep in mind a skinny steel barrel that weighs as much as a carbon is still all steel. I did a test a few years ago. Stiffness vs weight. I pulled out a bunch of barrels and supported them by the shank in the same place and hung a weight the same distance out from the breach and measured deflection. Now these were Proofs back then. I found that the defection of an equal weight carbon barrel was the same as an equal weight steel. If memory serves, a #3 fluted was as stiff as a Sendero light. I think they both weighted about 3.5 pounds. So there is no gain at all. The wrapping process can only induces stress, it can't reduce it. Just something to chew on. I don't mind chambering them, I always have them here getting chambered. Some guys really like them and I do not try to talk them out of them. I'm just so disappointed when someone struggles with one of my rifles."
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As you can see, we all have varying opinions, and personal experiences/preferences, the same is true with gunsmiths. What you do with them is entirely up to you. Good luck!
I own 4 CFW barrels. But the one contact I solicited information from, has clients numbering in the 1000s. Realize, you don't make friends bashing a barrel manufacturer. So that these guys speak at all, is quite remarkable! It's like asking your doctor an opinion about another doctor. Silence is common, unless they only have superlatives.
My contact is slightly thumbs down on CFW. The odds are in your favor of getting a CFW barrel that will shoot. But the odds they may be fussy during load development are higher. And they may not shoot well no matter how many bullets tried, and effort expended. I'm leary of CFW barrels for the time being. Don't really plan to purchase any more at this time. I'd rather carry another 16oz of barrel weight than fight load development components, and invest an inordinate amount of load development time. Only to end up disappointed.
My contact is slightly thumbs down on CFW. The odds are in your favor of getting a CFW barrel that will shoot. But the odds they may be fussy during load development are higher. And they may not shoot well no matter how many bullets tried, and effort expended. I'm leary of CFW barrels for the time being. Don't really plan to purchase any more at this time. I'd rather carry another 16oz of barrel weight than fight load development components, and invest an inordinate amount of load development time. Only to end up disappointed.
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D
Deleted member 107666
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If you wouldn't save weight buying a steel pencil contour barrel because chances are it won't shoot as consistent as a heavier contour, then why would you buy a steel pencil profile wrapped in carbon and expect results to be better? Especially at twice the price.
Call one of these manufacturers and say you want a shooter and you're torn between steel and CF...they will sell you the steel barrel 100% of the time.
Call one of these manufacturers and say you want a shooter and you're torn between steel and CF...they will sell you the steel barrel 100% of the time.
I sent my Bartlein CFW barrel back for their inspection. After my gunsmith dialed in on the bore in his lathe and confirmed two grooves had been cut deeper than the other 5. They said their barrel was manufactured within their tolerance specs. That barrel is now confirmed to meet tolerance specs, and suspends a tomato plant in my greenhouse.
Because that's exactly how it works, if you're running a suppressor. Pencil steel barrels are whippy when you hang weight on the end... they can become nearly impossible to keep in the node.
The carbon fiber brings stiffness, without the weight penalty. I would have thought this would be obvious at this point. It's not a theory. It's a proven fact.
The carbon makers spend their time talking about stiffness, but they don't often spend time talking about the muzzle movement and oscillation that pencil barrels have, due in part to the pressure wave expanding skinny barrels more than thick barrels as the "plug" (bullet) travels down the bore. When you wrap a high tensile strength material around the same contour, you don't only make it stiffer, but you constrain the expansion.
This is all very well documented at this point, and the real issue is folks not having the confidence to realize when they have a bad barrel vs a good barrel.
While I have very limited experience with carbon fiber unsuppressed rifles, my experience indicates that even without a suppressor, the carbon barrel will be easier to keep in the node than a pencil steel barrel. This is clouded by the fact that the most popular carbon barrels tend to not shoot very well compared to high end steel barrels of any contour.
Though the fact remains that a properly done carbon barrel that weighs the same as a skinny contour steel... will almost universally outshoot and/or be more forgiving than the steel pencil barrel.
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D
Deleted member 107666
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That's great, for the 5% of folks I see running a can on a CF barrel...the only thing the other 95% have on that barrel is a "proof" sticker, because it looks cool. For a certain niche (suppresed or otherwise in need of a larger steel muzzle diameter then a sporter) CF is a viable option, although still, in my limited experience with them, it's gonna shoot no better than a sporter...it will get hot as ****, take longer to cool and the risk of damage to a CF barrel is much higher in a hunting rigBecause that's exactly how it works, if you're running a suppressor. Pencil steel barrels are whippy when you hang weight on the end... they can become nearly impossible to keep in the node.
The carbon fiber brings stiffness, without the weight penalty. I would have thought this would be obvious at this point. It's not a theory. It's a proven fact.
The carbon makers spend their time talking about stiffness, but they don't often spend time talking about the muzzle movement and oscillation that pencil barrels have, due in part to the pressure wave expanding skinny barrels more than thick barrels as the "plug" (bullet) travels down the bore. When you wrap a high tensile strength material around the same contour, you don't only make it stiffer, but you constrain the expansion.
This is all very well documented at this point, and the real issue is folks not having the confidence to realize when they have a bad barrel vs a good barrel.
While I have very limited experience with carbon fiber unsuppressed rifles, my experience indicates that even without a suppressor, the carbon barrel will be easier to keep in the node than a pencil steel barrel. This is clouded by the fact that the most popular carbon barrels tend to not shoot very well compared to high end steel barrels of any contour.
Though the fact remains that a properly done carbon barrel that weighs the same as a skinny contour steel... will almost universally outshoot and/or be more forgiving than the steel pencil barrel.
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Speaking from all your extensive experience with carbon fiber barrels no doubt.... lol
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All of mine have been Proof so far, but thinking about trying Carbon Six to get a faster twist for heavy monolithic bullets
Montucky Roamer
Well-Known Member
And Bartlein 3b I had was a dang boat anchor compared to my proof sendero. Both 24" 30 cal. 2 b fluted would probably be nice!
