Need schooling on FFP and SFP

[bstomper]

I am in the market for a new scope and I am 99% sure it's gonna be a Vortex viper HSLR 4-16X50. I want the adjustable elevation turret so I can dial and shoot. I also like the deadhold reticle. I have read numerous articles and posts on FFP and SFP and think that I have an prety good idea of what they mean as well as some of the pros and cons of each But I have never had a FFP scope and I am a bit leary of it. I have not looked at or through one of these scopes yet as I live 4 hours away from the nearest hunting and shooting supply outlet. I highly doubt that I would use the reticle for ranging but it would be nice to use it for windage hold over. I know with the FFP the hash marks are accurate at any magnafication. With the SFP do the windage hash marks only work at the highest magnafication or can they also be used at different magnifications with a specified correction factor (IE: one hash mark at 16 power is one MOA and at 8 power it is .5 MOA). Also If I range with my rangefinder and and use my balistics calculator to find how many MOA I need to dial for elevation and windage, will those numbers work at any magnification from lowest to highest.
I hope this makes sence.

 

[westcliffe01]

There are lots of threads on the subject. It basically comes down to the following :

If you are a long way off the target and have the time to be contemplative about the shot (range, calculate, dial, shoot) then it will often favor a SFP scope, since the reticle is thinner (in MOA) and always looks the same. Also, you can follow a similar procedure, but instead of dialing, calculate which subtention to use based on the magnification you are using.

If the kind of shooting you do leaves very little time for a contemplated shot, and possibly little time at all to adjust magnification or verify what magnification is in use, then the procedure may be: Range, look up drop and windage on a ballistic table taped to the stock, determine holdover on reticle and shoot. For this you want a FFP scope, since the reticle is "always to scale".

A caveat with FFP reticles is that at Min power (4x for your scope) you probably can't read the tics on the reticle. But that begs the question, why would you have your scope set to 4x for a shot needing holdover ? I usually match the field of view between the scope and my binoculars (a 7x pair of binocs) and I can add a little zoom after I acquire the target since there is no need to have the scope set to any exact magnification.

I hunt coyotes, typically 130-450yd shots and generally only have seconds to take the shot. For me and my situation, the 4-16x50 PST scope was the right choice. In my opinion, the optics in the non PST Viper scopes is of lower quality than the PST which makes the reduction in cost for the HST scope a poor value consideration. Of course to find that out, I bought 2 PST scopes and then an HST and could make a direct comparison.

If you keep an eye on cameralandny.com they frequently have PST demo scopes and can save you nearly $200 which is how I got both of mine.

Edit: I see the OP is in Canada thus the store in NY may not be an option (exporting ITAR items)

 

[bstomper]

Putting it that way makes a lot more sense and thinking about it makes me think that for my style of hunting I think the SFP would suit me better. Thanks for the reply

 

[Rich Coyle]

Putting it that way makes a lot more sense and thinking about it makes me think that for my style of hunting I think the SFP would suit me better. Thanks for the reply

Last year I shot a pronghorn at 420 yards with the scope on 4X. If one can't see the lines on a FFP scope on low power when hunting, why have one!?

 

[westcliffe01]

People shoot competition with iron sights to 1000 yards. So for eagle eyed Chuck Yeagers like you, one should ask, Why do you need a scope ?

People like me, who can't even see the target at 100 yards, we need scopes and magnification, since we do not have attributes like Zeus Zeus

 

[FEENIX]

People shoot competition with iron sights to 1000 yards. So for eagle eyed Chuck Yeagers like you, one should ask, Why do you need a scope ?

People like me, who can't even see the target at 100 yards, we need scopes and magnification, since we do not have attributes like Zeus Zeus

I hear you, my spotter when I shot my 2013 bull elk at 931 yards is eagle eyed as you noted. I too struggle seeing targets with open sights at that range.

 

[bstomper]

Thats insane, 1000 yards with open sites.
Quick question that has nothing to do with focal planes. The scope that I am looking at has 75 moa of elevation travel with a reticle that has 30 moa of hold over. With 37+- moa for up elevation and 37+- for down elevation, does this mean that I would have 67+- moa of possible elevation (from center) including the 30 moa of holdover on the reticle. And if I put a 20 moa scope base on I can gain another 20 moa?
Sorry for all the questions but I am trying learn this long range stuff.

 

[westcliffe01]

If the scope has 75MOA of travel, you will get some % of that number to use when set up on the rifle. As you noted, with a "straight" scope rail, it would be half of the total, less some amount to get it sighted in. If you use a 20MOA scope rail, you will get half of the total travel + 20MOA less an amount to get it sighted in. Buy good quality scope rails, not the $30 junk, or as several people on this site have found, the 37.5MOA may not be enough to get the sight zeroed. No joke !!

You are also correct that one can dial and use the reticle. But the only people why generally do that are the snipers taking mile and a half range shots on very bad people who are trying to kill them... If you use a 20MOA rail, you will generally have more than enough on the dial to take any reasonable long range shot. If you need more, the ballistics of your rifle are not likely to be conducive to humanely killing the target at that range. However, if you follow through on your scope on a long range shot, you may be able to spot where the hit (or miss) was at, and could then use the reticle to compensate for the difference.

You will generally find optical quality deteriorating as you move off the center, especially when the turret already has the optics off axis to begin with.

The above 2 images recently posted on the MGO forum Re-barreling and rebuilding a Remington 700?

Picture taken at the 300 yard line at the range...
I am definitely not capable of this with iron sights......

Thats insane, 1000 yards with open sites.
Quick question that has nothing to do with focal planes. The scope that I am looking at has 75 moa of elevation travel with a reticle that has 30 moa of hold over. With 37+- moa for up elevation and 37+- for down elevation, does this mean that I would have 67+- moa of possible elevation (from center) including the 30 moa of holdover on the reticle. And if I put a 20 moa scope base on I can gain another 20 moa?
Sorry for all the questions but I am trying learn this long range stuff.

 

[FEENIX]

Thats insane, 1000 yards with open sites.

Yes it is ...

[ame]https://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM?t=3[/ame]


[ame]https://youtu.be/jJ3XwizTqDw?t=5[/ame]

 

[johnnyk]

Hope this helps....

 

[Rich Coyle]

Hope this helps....

The size of the line in the FFP 10X seems larger than real life or the line in the FFP on 25X seems smaller than real life. Am I seeing correctly?

 

[FEENIX]

Vortex does an excellent job on their demonstration ...

[ame]https://youtu.be/4XgugJSqpoE?t=110[/ame]

 

[bstomper]

Thanks for the info guys. This is the kind of responses i was looking for to help me learn this stuff. There's alot mor to it than the short range shooting. I do realize that with the sfp scopes that the reticle subtentions are only accurate on a specific magnafication, usualy the hightest.