Panchik
Well-Known Member
If it is on max magnification I think it is not bad...Nice try my friend, not all miltary ever see war.
They should have asked for a better eye relief than 3.15" on that scope.
Need help ffp or sfp
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clamb4
Well-Known Member
I have always had sfp scopes and didn't see any need for ffpscopes. Two years ago I missed a mule deer at 300 yards using a sfp scope witha graduated recital. The first mark under the cross hair was dead on at 300yards and the second mark 400 hundred and so forth. In the excitement of themoment I had forgot that those marks were only good at 16 power. My scope was on 4 power so I missed and ittook me a few minutes to figure out why.
I bought a Veracity 4 x 20 x 50 ffp scope, now it doesn'tmatter what power the scope is on, the graduations are always correct. I amshooting a 7mm mag at 3016 fps, 168g Berger and a 250 yard zero. First mark is325, second mark 420, third mark 525, and fourth mark 655.
I tested my rifle in Wyoming the day before I went huntingat 500y and 764y. Using the turret and then the graduation marks I fired twothree shot groups at each distance. The groups were on top of each other. Myplan was to use the reticle out to 550 and dial past 550 yards.
The first day shot a mule deer at 265 yards at 8 power.
Second day shot a mule deer at 525 yards at 20 power.
Third day shot a mule deer at 75 yards on a dead run at 4power. Low light last 10 minutes of legal shooting light. Did not have a problem seeing the crosshairs as some of you stated earlier. This is the first ffp scope I have ownedand didn't realize that could be a problem. Maybe this is why I could see thecross hairs just fine, from the Burris web site:
Progressively ThickCrosshairs (PTC) provide very fine central crosshairs thatbecome thicker as they move away from the center, allowing ultra-fast targetengagement at close ranges and in low light conditions. This progression occursat the perfect increments to ensure you are on target at any magnification.With the new PTC Technology, you can pick your power and know that your reticlewill perform flawlessly.
Fourth day shot a mule deer at 391 yards on 12 power.
I used the reticle graduations for the 525 and 391 shots andthe normal cross hair for the 265 and 75 shots. The scope performed flawlessly,and now I am trying to save money to get another one.
If you hunt, then a FFP will help you. Hunting is a dynamic situation...I change power all the time based on conditions. Field of view can be critical, if there is mirage then max power can exacerbate it, there are tons of reasons in the field you might want lesser magnification. With FFP, set the mag where you want and your wind holds will always be accurate, no math required. If the ballistic app says 2.3 mils, you hold 2.3 mils and dont have to worry about it. Even better, if you know your rifle, for shorter range shots like 3 to 600 you can just use your retical and again the holds are accurate wherever the dial.
I have a SFP, and missed what should have been an easy holdover shot on a coyote because I forgot I had dialed down some for better FOV while they were traveling. It will get you eventually.
If I were shooting 1000 yard benchrest at a stationary target with plenty of time to dope the shot then yeah it doesn't matter. But for hunting FFP has some distinct advantages.
I have a SFP, and missed what should have been an easy holdover shot on a coyote because I forgot I had dialed down some for better FOV while they were traveling. It will get you eventually.
If I were shooting 1000 yard benchrest at a stationary target with plenty of time to dope the shot then yeah it doesn't matter. But for hunting FFP has some distinct advantages.
Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)
Well-Known Member
I absolutely agree with you... However, as Feenix said... It's all about personal preference and for some, sfp is the right choice. It's just a matter of what fits the person looking through the eye-piece, or their wallet.
Yeah there are some annoyances with FFP, like thick reticles. Personally, I think they should etch two reticles. Etch out a clean, thin, plain crosshair in the second focal plane, but have the hash marks for your mils or moa in the first focal plane. They would float in and out as you dial the magnification around. Then you'd always be able to use the hash marks but the main crosshair wouldn't change thickness.
Come on guys, add another shift if you have to, I want that scope and some 7 mm Berger 195s right now !!!
Come on guys, add another shift if you have to, I want that scope and some 7 mm Berger 195s right now !!!
Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)
Well-Known Member
KYpatriot... That's actually a terrific idea. I'm wondering if they haven't done it as it adds another layer of glass which then impacts clarity... But I do like the thought of it.
bruce_ventura
Well-Known Member
Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)
Well-Known Member
I looked at the shepherd many years ago, however, though I realize it had a moveable reticle, it was not my impression that the scope had reticles in the first and the second focal plane. Am I mistaken on this? Got a good link that explains this, or perhaps a video that shows 1st & 2nd focal functionality.... Or are you just saying that the scope has 2 reticles? Little lost on this one actually as I'm wondering if our wires got crossed communicating this one.
7magcreedmoor
Well-Known Member
I just sold two Shepherds and still have two more on other rifles. There are two separate reticles in the scope, a second plane reticle which is 3/4 of a duplex- the left, right, and top bars, then the first plane reticle which is where all the busy stuff lives. Externally there are two sets of turrets, a larger knob set which adjusts the FFP (range-finding/drop-compensating) unit, and a smaller set that adjusts the SFP unit. I can't find the manual for any of them just now and its dark out so I can't do pictures through the scope for you, but you can see all this at shepherdscopes.com if you want. The FFP reticle has a series of circles on the verticle line, starting with a 1moa circle for 100yds, then a line for 200, another circle for 300, 400, 500 etc all the way down to 1000yds. The range-finding/drop-compensating trick is this: each circle is 18" at the distance specified, and is also the corresponding drop below center for the load profile. Sounds good. Is good, to a point. They offer several different models, the "varmint" setup has circles that represent 9" at distance, and two big game sizes- 18" and 24" circles. There are also several different drop profiles- P1, P2, P3, etc., which are generic. You must select the one that best fits your load. That's the downside. If your load is a very close match, great, but if it isn't.... That is why I sold those scopes. A straight MOA or MIL grid reticle is more versatile (sheps do have grids, but off to the side and across the upper portion of your viewing area) if you memorize drops, dialing turrets is more precise no matter what. My only real criticism of the Shepherd design as far as it goes is the moa measurements are the rounded off 1inch/100yard "shooter's MOA" instead of true 1.047"/100yards. Trying to translate a ballistic program drop chart to the reticle will make you twitch your eyelid after a while. One thing is for certain, though- they are fastfastfast to use at short to medium ranges, because you don't have to move anything, just look, decide, shoot. Depending on your intended use, they can be quite satisfactory. As an educational tool, one look through while turning the mag ring and you will understand fully the difference between first and second plane functionality.
lightbulbI hope the OP have made a decision already. lightbulb
7magcreedmoor
Well-Known Member
Found a picture I took at the range a couple years ago through the Shepherd.
