Confused! lots of customs for sale?

[Alibiiv]

The 300 RUM is quite a bit more than the 300win. mag , as for both being 300 magnums ! It also has a lot more recoil then the 300 Winchester Magnum and that needs to be considered too, a break on the RUM is a big help !

Hello BuckBuster, My point with my post, "I'm pretty much old school, believe that if one were to compare the older cartridges/calibers to the "new" designer ones that are being promoted today there's really not enough difference to warrant changing over if one considers the distances being hunted at and the game that is being harvested." is one where I am saying that the old school calibers aren't so much different than the newer designer ones. From the Nosler reloading guide 8, I chose the fairly universal 30 caliber 180 grain bullet for a comparison. We have the "ole school" 308 Norma mag@2900fps, the 300 H&H@2900fps, 300WinMag@3100fps, 300Weatherby@3200fps. Now the designer "new school" 30 calibers 300SAUM@2900fps, 30-375@3250fps and the 300RUM@3200fps. Ole school averages out for the four calibers to 3025 fps and new school averages out to 3116fps.With these comparative ballistics, UNLESS one has to eek/squeak out every single drop of feet-per-second there's only about 400fps fro the slowest ole school caliber from the fastest new school. With these comparative ballistics, UNLESS one has to eek/squeak out every single drop of feet-per-second there's only about 400fps difference from ole school vs new school cartridges; and, averaged out between ole school and designer calibers it's 3025fps vs 3116fps for designer calibers.

 

[Buck Buster]

Hello BuckBuster, My point with my post, "I'm pretty much old school, believe that if one were to compare the older cartridges/calibers to the "new" designer ones that are being promoted today there's really not enough difference to warrant changing over if one considers the distances being hunted at and the game that is being harvested."

Many would agree with you including me ! I have a 300 Win. Magnum and a 308 Norma magnum bench gun they are almost identical in ballistics, but there are those that will go for the change to gain that almighty hundred or two hundred feet per second faster rifle ! That was what I was getting at .

 

[Alibiiv]

Many would agree with you including me ! I have a 300 Win. Magnum and a 308 Norma magnum bench gun they are almost identical in ballistics, but there are those that will go for the change to gain that almighty hundred or two hundred feet per second faster rifle ! That was what I was getting at .

I got what you were saying, thanks for the response I really appreciate getting them, you supported my thoughts with someone trying to eek out the all mighty 100-200fps. With what I summed it up with my last post, the ole school calibers are tough to beat when considering all the variables. I'll go one further adding (gonna raise eyebrows) that compared to all of the new designer calibers that are being promoted, if one were to do the same comparisons while considering the game that is being harvested and the average distances that the game is going to be harvested at by the average hunter the .270 Winchester is a tough caliber to beat; real ole school. For the average hunter, one has really get out there with a far reaching shot to be able to make an argument for beating the "ole school" .270 Winchester. Comparably speaking the .270 Winchester caliber has a lot to offer, ammunition and components are always readily available and affordable, and no one can say that about the new school, designer calibers at $70-80+ for a 25 count of brass, "IF" the brass is available at all. When comparing ole school vs new school, one could make a good argument for the smaller calibers like .264WinMag, 6.5-06, 7mm mauser, 6.5X55mm as holding their own in the FPS race.

 

[Buck Buster]

I got what you were saying, thanks for the response I really appreciate getting them, you supported my thoughts with someone trying to eek out the all mighty 100-200fps. With what I summed it up with my last post, the ole school calibers are tough to beat when considering all the variables. I'll go one further adding (gonna raise eyebrows) that compared to all of the new designer calibers that are being promoted, if one were to do the same comparisons while considering the game that is being harvested and the average distances that the game is going to be harvested at by the average hunter the .270 Winchester is a tough caliber to beat; real ole school. For the average hunter, one has really get out there with a far reaching shot to be able to make an argument for beating the "ole school" .270 Winchester. Comparably speaking the .270 Winchester caliber has a lot to offer, ammunition and components are always readily available and affordable, and no one can say that about the new school, designer calibers at $70-80+ for a 25 count of brass, "IF" the brass is available at all. When comparing ole school vs new school, one could make a good argument for the smaller calibers like .264WinMag, 6.5-06, 7mm mauser, 6.5X55mm as holding their own in the FPS race.

Lets start another one! I like the 30-06 better than the 270 ! Not really both are hard to beat until you actually get into the magnums ! The 270 shoots a little flatter, and the 30-06 has a better bullet selection ! I will say this, at one time the 30-06 I am told was the most accurate 1000 yard gun at Camp Perry ! And the 30 calibers have a great selection of bullets, that let a reloader load for about any game or conditions ! Many calibers are very limited and then some of the bullet choices are hard to get to shoot under minute of angle groups with them !

 

[TOM H]

I got what you were saying, thanks for the response I really appreciate getting them, you supported my thoughts with someone trying to eek out the all mighty 100-200fps. With what I summed it up with my last post, the ole school calibers are tough to beat when considering all the variables. I'll go one further adding (gonna raise eyebrows) that compared to all of the new designer calibers that are being promoted, if one were to do the same comparisons while considering the game that is being harvested and the average distances that the game is going to be harvested at by the average hunter the .270 Winchester is a tough caliber to beat; real ole school. For the average hunter, one has really get out there with a far reaching shot to be able to make an argument for beating the "ole school" .270 Winchester. Comparably speaking the .270 Winchester caliber has a lot to offer, ammunition and components are always readily available and affordable, and no one can say that about the new school, designer calibers at $70-80+ for a 25 count of brass, "IF" the brass is available at all. When comparing ole school vs new school, one could make a good argument for the smaller calibers like .264WinMag, 6.5-06, 7mm mauser, 6.5X55mm as holding their own in the FPS race.

Didn't you just build 270AI?

 

[Alibiiv]

Didn't you just build 270AI?

Hi Tom, yes actually there are two being built (my son's Christmas present is one) as we speak. Presently the hold up is with the two+ month wait for the Lilja barrels. The gunsmith said that his shop is just down the street from Lilja factory, however it doesn't make any difference. I called the gunsmith last week to see if he'd started the rifles because we wanted to make some bluing changes, and he hadn't due to not getting the barrels in. When we get the rifles back there's going to be another wait for Whidden dies, would like to get the rifles up and running before next November's deer season. When I originally bought the first rifle as a donor rifle, at that time a caliber had not been decided on; but I knew that I wanted a wildcat cartridge. I had .270 Winchester dies, brass and bullets and decided that I would shoot the donor rifle. When I shot the rifle I was impressed with how accurate it was and found it to be a pleasure to shoot. At the time the trend/designer round was on the .280 Ackley Improved SAAMI, and I was going to build a .280AI. Then I got into the Ackley SAAMI and the Ackley Wildcat confusion. I guess that I am slow because it took me a month or two to figure out the differences between the two rounds especially with all the misinformation that I did find. While doing the research in the cartridge I checked out the price and availability for the brass and was not happy with the cost of brass. Availability was a consideration when deciding on a caliber; at $80 for 50 .280AI casings it certainly was a consideration. With that in mind I started doing some research with the limited data on the .270AI. To me I believe that good .270 Winchester brass will always be available, and I didn't want to be held hostage by a manufacturer for brass.

There was a lot of "bad" information on the round due to Ackley's own 50+ year old comment that it wasn't worth building because it already was an overbore cartridge. But I figured that was 50+ years ago and the powders that we presently have we not available back then. As for the overbore comment by Ackley, I have trouble with .270AI was overbore while the .280AI is a great wildcat; I don't believe that .007 thousandths of an inch is going to make that much difference. I asked how one cartridge could be the best thing since "socks and underwear" (.280AI), and the other round be overbore (.270AAI). My feelings were that I was happy with what I was getting out of the .270 Win, if I could get to those ballistics or better I would be happy with that. Starting out with the .270 Winchester's maximum load to develop a load I felt that there was no way I could go wrong to get at least or more out of the round, and the .270AI build is on a 26 inch barrel. And last but not least I have always wanted a wildcat round to reload. I've been really having fun researching and purchasing tools to make accurate reloads with. There's lots of measuring tools that I should have had on the reloading bench, however I wasn't really aware of their value in making accurate reloads until I started this entire wildcat journey. Long answer to a quick question.

 

[FEENIX]

Hi Tom, yes actually there are two (my son is getting one) being built as we speak. Presently the hold up is with the two+ month wait for the Lilja barrels. The gunsmith said that his shop is just down the street from Lilja factory, however it doesn't make any difference. I called last week to see if he'd started the rifles because we wanted to make some bluing changes, and he hadn't due to not getting the barrels in. When we get the rifles back there's going to be another wait for Whidden dies, would like to get the rifles up and running before next November's deer season.

I went the same route with my .30 LARA except I had the custom reamer built too. I love my .270 AI with 30" Lilja 3G 1:8", I'm sure yours like mine is worth the wait. Hang in there, it'll be on your hands ready for the hunt before you know it.

Ed

 

[Alibiiv]

I went the same route with my .30 LARA except I had the custom reamer built too. I love my .270 AI with 30" Lilja 3G 1:8", I'm sure yours like mine is worth the wait. Hang in there, it'll be on your hands ready for the hunt before you know it.

Ed

The builds are with 26 inch barrels so we ought to get maximum out of the loads. My gunsmith told me that he has build numerous .270AI's over the years and that he did have reamers for the build; he too has a .270 AI, tang safety Ruger in his arsenal. I know that when we get the rifles up and running we will have something that was worth waiting for. And I have a 1970 Remington 700ADL, 30-06 in the safe that I "might" build a 30-06 AI, the jury is still out with this one though.

 

[Heavyiron]

During ackleys time the heaviest common bullet was 150 grains for the 270. Where the 280ai, got his approval was because you could get bullets up to 175 grains. Using bullets below 150 grains in the 280ai, or the 270 makes them close to equal. Nothing wrong with a 270 or a 280ai. Since the 270ai has better bullets with more weight, it will be the equal to the 280ai. I own both the 270 and the 280ai, guess that shows how i feel.
His comments were to really prove what the 280ai could do against the 7mm rem mag. Pitting the 270 vs the 270 weatherby mag showed very little difference in velocity with 150 grain bullets

 

[Alibiiv]

During ackleys time the heaviest common bullet was 150 grains for the 270. Where the 280ai, got his approval was because you could get bullets up to 175 grains. Using bullets below 150 grains in the 280ai, or the 270 makes them close to equal. Nothing wrong with a 270 or a 280ai. Since the 270ai has better bullets with more weight, it will be the equal to the 280ai. I own both the 270 and the 280ai, guess that shows how i feel.
His comments were to really prove what the 280ai could do against the 7mm rem mag. Pitting the 270 vs the 270 weatherby mag showed very little difference in velocity with 150 grain bullets

For me I want a 300-600 yard deer rifle. I've a Wyoming mule deer/antelope hunt on the back burner; and.....I'm not getting any younger so not too certain about that hunt, but the deer hunting is going to happen. My thoughts are that there is a really good selection of 140-150 grain, long range bullets that ought to be fine for my deer hunting needs. My .270AI build is on a Ruger 77 , tang safety action and the magazine well is not so long as to allow really long/heavier bullets to work in the magazine. I've settled on s 1-9 twist barrel that ought to be fine for the bullets I plan on using. Thanks for your input on Ackleys statement on the .270 AI

 

[Heavyiron]

Btw, i have an older 280ai that came out many years before the nosler build. I make my 280ai cases from 270 brass, just neck 270 brass up to 30 caliber then size it down to 280. I seat bullets to fit in the lands with about a 90% charge of imr4831. This will fireform 280ai brass with no problem.

Good luck on your build and your future hunt.

 

[Kimber7man]

It's not about how the rifle affects the shooter, it's about how the caliber affects the Elk and if you don't concern your self about ethically killing a majestic animal than your not much of a sportsman and should leave the field and stay on the range!

Thanks for telling me what I should concern myself with.

 

[Alibiiv]

Btw, i have an older 280ai that came out many years before the nosler build. I make my 280ai cases from 270 brass, just neck 270 brass up to 30 caliber then size it down to 280. I seat bullets to fit in the lands with about a 90% charge of imr4831. This will fireform 280ai brass with no problem.

Good luck on your build and your future hunt.

Thanks for the good wishes on the build and the hunt. I "almost" went with the .280AI, originally the .280AI Wildcat was what the specs were for the build when I sent them to the gunsmith. I've always had a fondness for the .270 Winchester and figured that getting a little bit more out of the caliber would make the round even better. Three weeks after I sent the specs I called the gunsmith and asked if it were possible to change the caliber from .280AI to .270AI. He said he was uncertain because the barrels had already been ordered however he would try. He called back and told me that he was able to change the calibers. And....I've been in a foot cast since January 30th., researching and ordering some of the measuring and concentricity tools has helped occupy my time and credit card. If the gunsmith had not been able to change the calibers, I would have been quite happy with the .280AI Wildcat. The primary plan for the rifle it to deer hunt at 300-600 yards, so either caliber would work just fine; and.... I wanted a unique wildcat rifle to load for.

 

[TOM H]

Hi Tom, yes actually there are two being built (my son's Christmas present is one) as we speak. Presently the hold up is with the two+ month wait for the Lilja barrels. The gunsmith said that his shop is just down the street from Lilja factory, however it doesn't make any difference. I called the gunsmith last week to see if he'd started the rifles because we wanted to make some bluing changes, and he hadn't due to not getting the barrels in. When we get the rifles back there's going to be another wait for Whidden dies, would like to get the rifles up and running before next November's deer season. When I originally bought the first rifle as a donor rifle, at that time a caliber had not been decided on; but I knew that I wanted a wildcat cartridge. I had .270 Winchester dies, brass and bullets and decided that I would shoot the donor rifle. When I shot the rifle I was impressed with how accurate it was and found it to be a pleasure to shoot. At the time the trend/designer round was on the .280 Ackley Improved SAAMI, and I was going to build a .280AI. Then I got into the Ackley SAAMI and the Ackley Wildcat confusion. I guess that I am slow because it took me a month or two to figure out the differences between the two rounds especially with all the misinformation that I did find. While doing the research in the cartridge I checked out the price and availability for the brass and was not happy with the cost of brass. Availability was a consideration when deciding on a caliber; at $80 for 50 .280AI casings it certainly was a consideration. With that in mind I started doing some research with the limited data on the .270AI. To me I believe that good .270 Winchester brass will always be available, and I didn't want to be held hostage by a manufacturer for brass.

There was a lot of "bad" information on the round due to Ackley's own 50+ year old comment that it wasn't worth building because it already was an overbore cartridge. But I figured that was 50+ years ago and the powders that we presently have we not available back then. As for the overbore comment by Ackley, I have trouble with .270AI was overbore while the .280AI is a great wildcat; I don't believe that .007 thousandths of an inch is going to make that much difference. I asked how one cartridge could be the best thing since "socks and underwear" (.280AI), and the other round be overbore (.270AAI). My feelings were that I was happy with what I was getting out of the .270 Win, if I could get to those ballistics or better I would be happy with that. Starting out with the .270 Winchester's maximum load to develop a load I felt that there was no way I could go wrong to get at least or more out of the round, and the .270AI build is on a 26 inch barrel. And last but not least I have always wanted a wildcat round to reload. I've been really having fun researching and purchasing tools to make accurate reloads with. There's lots of measuring tools that I should have had on the reloading bench, however I wasn't really aware of their value in making accurate reloads until I started this entire wildcat journey. Long answer to a quick question.

I guess you didn't understand why I asked about your 270AI. I guess you didn't read your post about how great 270 which I was replying too. Maybe you'll understand this question. If you think 270 so great why build 270AI.