375 Snipe Tac...Barrel and Bullet tests

[Fiftydriver]

Is anyone looking to make a bullet that is actually legal for big game hunting out here in most of the western states when many require an expanding bullet?

high BC is great, high velocity is great but if they are not legal to use on big game, there are alot of us out here that will not be included in that customer base.

I think that is where the aluminum tipped bullets have extreme potential but very few seem to be going that direction at this time. Perhaps because it so much easier to produce the solids.

 

[Varminator 911]

Dave at LeHigh told me they could build a two piece, expanding, CNC machined bullet with very high bc but it would cost $4 per bullet. He can only machine 150 per hr compared to many thousands per hr for Barnes or Nosler. Also assemblying the two parts must be automated for him to do it and that is another big expense.

So I think we're looking at the Berger VLDs or the Al tipped custom jobs as our best bet for future improvements in 338 or 375 hunting bullets.

 

[Augustus]

Fiftydriver, I am not a bullet maker, however I am an optimist when it comes to mans ability to overcome obstacles in pushing technology in any field foward. The work being done on the solids will be the testing and proving grounds for high bc bullets. It is here the limit will be pushed and and the opitimum relationship in bore/bullet demension, twist rates, gain twist, number of grooves, number size and location of the bands, and a host of other unknowns will be worked out. After this work is complete someone will develop the materials and manufacturing techniques to produce hunting bullets that will mimic the performance of these solids so close that a hunter will be able to shoot the solids and also have the more expensive hunting bullets to use on game with minor adjustments. Until then we will have to rely on what is available, the alum. tipped seem to be the top of the food chain right now.

 

[Varminator 911]

Augustus:

Good points. I too think we'll have much better, high bc hunting bullets someday. In the meantime it could be fun shooting the solids on paper or elsewhere. I could get interested in testing the limits of a 1.5 bc bullet.

 

[Augustus]

Yep, this is going to be fun, if it all comes togather and we wind up with a 1.5 BC 400 gr. projo flying 3300-3400 ish there is going to be a new chapter written in the ELR book. I think this may be doable very soon; however, there also needs to be sub-moa accuracy and this is where the problem may arise. It may also be that these things wont fly at all and may make big oblong holes in everything they hit. Before anyone gets their drawers in a wad, the 1.5 BC is just a guess and the 3300 fps goal is contingent on new propellants and a new case design driven through a gain twist barrel, all of which is still in development. The first tests as far as I know will be at around 2800fps (hopefully) through a constant 8 twist. Everybody just sit back and enjoy the spectacle. I am nothing more than a guinea pig in all this and I'm OK with that.

 

[Black Diamond 408]

Augustus,

Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry Interesting!

I too have a new case im working on. The first prototype rifle will be in testing very soon.
400grn bullets in the 3300fps range. But i will start another thread when testing starts.

Being a Guinea Pig is part of the fun, not everything works out as planned but when it does, that is where you get your gratification. Most people dont realize just how much R&D goes into such projects...$$$$ Its easy to do all the work and someone comes along and copies
your ideas, this is why from now on i make all my stuff proprietary.

 

[Augustus]

408, I am happy to hear there are more people working on new projects, I am looking foward to seeing how it all shakes out.

 

[djdcsi]

We are working with not only Sierra Bullets building our .375 Match Kings and possibly Game Kings, but several other bullet manufacturers on heavier .375 and .408 expandables, even .338 expandables which are known as the 338 CheyTac. We don't improve shoulders, etc. on the brass. U.S. and NATO Military frowns on that. It is simply a .408 case necked down. Same bolt face, magazines, etc. on any of the three cartridges.

We leave the "Neck Improving" chores up to Dave and Kirby! Those two guys do a fabulous job, as I've dealt with both of them for years. They are #1, and we will continue to be there for any wants and wishes they may have as best we can. Those 2 guys continue to "push the envelope".

A .408/400 grain Hornady SST is very close, and may probably be the next .408 Cal. bullet produced. But there are some manufacturers producing .408 solid expandables right now that shoot very well, perform very well, and have a very high B.C.

Solids are more expensive than lead core bullets, but adding both lead core and solids to the line of .408, .375, 338 availibilities is a win-win situation at this time.

Dave Durham
CheyTac, USA
208-527-8614

 

[Fiftydriver]

Dave,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for the teaser about the A-Max. Any idea when it may be ready for us??? My 410 Allen Magnum is dieing for a new bullet!!!

Take care, You need to post on here more often, we would love to hear about your projects at Chey Tac!!!

 

[djdcsi]

Hey Kirby,

The Hornady SST, right now, is scheduled for a 2/09 "Shot Show-roll out"). It will only be in a .408 offering..... If everything goes as planned, and as I'm told.

I have some solid expandable .408/420 gr. bullets that absolutely shoot "Lights Out" and very sub-MOA. Those were just prototypes at this time. They grouped great for me, and expansion was extrodinary in wet phone books, Obama magazines, etc.

I shot some .408 lead core bullets that "key holed" every shot from 25-100 yards. Those there, were USA made. They came apart with a 1x13 twist rate doing 2900 FPS at 25 yards.

Just an update Kirby. Hope you are well.

Sorry If I'm not on this site that often. You know what I do. We train here and there, and I'm out of CONUS some times.

As you know, I withhold opionions on nothing. Tell it like I see it. My goal is to get the best sytems I know of, into the hands of the guys/operators that require/need it today. I tell it like I see it, and would not approve rifles for Combat unless I would personnaly take it there myself, or send it to my son. That is my mission.

I have but that ONE philosophy....

..and have worked at CheyTac since it's inception with Dean Michaelis as shooting partners for way too many years!

But...beinging an Observer/Shooter (and don't ever say Spotter in Deans presence) for Dean for many years, I got to welcoming his "tirades" in the field. I wish there was more of his kind, with that kind of experiance out there.

Take care,

Dave D.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Dave,

That is good to hear about the SST option coming. Will these be a regular catalog item of special order type thing, Ya know, the type where I have to call you to get them!! LOL

Lead core bullets certainly have their challanges and issues for sure. Its my opinion that when bullet gets to these weights, and you drive them to these velocities, its much harder to keep them together then a smaller diameter, lighter weight bullet. Jacket thickness is critical to success.

Ever think we could talk Nosler to make us a 400-420 grains accubond!!! Doubt it!!

Totally understand you being busy and not able to get on the board much. Thats just a good sign!!!

 

[Black Diamond 408]

Hey Dave,
Long time no talk!!!!

I have to say the new 375 brass is working great! Seems the guys in Sturgis got
the problems worked out, good job! Let me know when you get some bullets to test.
Any caliber will do. Keep up the good work.

Dave

 

[Augustus]

For those interested in the progression of the banded solids. I recieved a sample of the 30 cal variety. There were two versions, one was brass and weighh 181.5 gr, the other was copper and weighed 190 gr. I shot these out of 10 twist standard barrels. The first were shot out of a Broughton 10 twist .308. These would not stabilize at 308 velocities. I then fired them from a stock Remington 700 300 Rem Ultramag 10 twist barrel. They did marginally stabilize at around 3000 fps. Computer programs are suggesting a 8.3-8.5 twist will be needed for optimum performance, I am in the process of obtaining a gain twist 1/8.5 barrel and we will know a lot more about these bullets very soon. Also I posted earlier that someone will introduce a banded expanding hunting bullet that will be a clone to the solids in every respect except it will expand. I felt sure it would happen at some point but I did not expect it to happen so soon. It appears there may be an expanding version that will be available even before the testing is complete on the the ones I have now. I have been asked to not discuss specifics but it is not a two piece bullet and the performance will be identical to the non-expanding versions. The hunting bullets will be higher in price but all practice can be done with the cheaper ones. The first bullets as stated weigh 190ish but there is no reason that they cant be longer and heavier with BCs off the charts. Get ready for the era of the long stroking single shots with gain twist barrels.

 

[Varminator 911]

Augustus:

Wow!! You are talking performance that blows away everything we have now!! If these bullets are so long they need gain twist barrels, we must be talking bc well above 1. I know you have talked a bc of 1.5 before. I'm going to run that again thru JBM and put all my plans on hold.

And expanding solids that shoot like the normal solids!!!!!

I did a quick check on JBM. A bullet with bc of 1.5 carries 2/3 of it's initial velocity to 2000 yds at 4500ft elev. So with 3000fps at muzzle you still have 2000fps at 2000 yds!!!

Please keep us updated.