Advice on 1000 yard elk hunting rig?

[codym]

I think the big 7mm's and 30 cal mags are all fine upto 1K. If you may want to go farther you may consider the 338. I have a friend thats a guide and gun werks dealer and they have killed a bunch of monster bulls at 700 plus with a gun werks 28 Nos. I shoot a 300 win mag, steel and paper as I bow hunt for elk. I took a new guy this year that drew a nice rifle bull tag, he used my rifle. Dropped the bull in his tracks at 770 with a 215 hybrid over H-1000. If it were me I would stay with the big 30's but that doesnt mean the 7mm's cant get it done too.

 

[Mach 1]

It's not going to happen because there are no belted cartridges and the case capacity that we want. And even if all things were equal and there was such a case we would opt for a beltless cartridge so we can size that portion of the case and not end up with Clickers. But it's not going to shoot any different. In that area of the case we are sizing them about 0005. The brass is just not being worked that much and this inconsistent sizing and growth you're talking about is probably more hypothetical than reality. The belts are gone because the cases they are attached to are too big for the raw accuracy requirements of long-range benchrest. They used to be popular in long-range benchrest when the mentality was big heavy bullets and beating the wind. The idea used to be use the biggest bullet drive it as hard as possible because a thousand yards is a long way. As time went on guys realized raw accuracy wins so cases have gotten smaller and smaller to the point where at today where it's very very hard to beat 105 grain 6 mm bullet going right around 3,000 feet per second. So far as this discussion goes and shooting elk at long distance I wouldn't even consider it with anything less than a 200 grain 30 caliber bullet and I would much prefer a 338

I agree with 80 percent of that. We will have to agree to disagree on the remaining 10 percent. Thanks for the conversation.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I agree with 80 percent of that. We will have to agree to disagree on the remaining 10 percent. Thanks for the conversation.

Your math doesn't add up....

 

[Mach 1]

Your math doesn't add up..

Maybe that's why I ruin brass sometimes lol

 

[lancetkenyon]

Maybe that's why I ruin brass sometimes lol

So I am not the only one??? Makes me feel a bit better....but just a bit.

 

[86alaskan]

So, when the chips are down and you're looking for a good clean kill way out there, you'd really want a big 30 or 338. While many will say a 7mm or 6.5 will get it done with great placement, why chance it? Don't we all want a quick efficient kill for our quarry? 215, 230, 250 on up at 2800fps or more. You get the benefits of great BC, plus the added comfort of the added energy from a larger bullet. LIke its been said, why risk a 7mm not punching a shoulder because of a bad wind read or animal movement? A good elk rifle starts with 3 and leaves 2 holes, all the time. There's no such thing as overkill.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

So, when the chips are down and you're looking for a good clean kill way out there, you'd really want a big 30 or 338. While many will say a 7mm or 6.5 will get it done with great placement, why chance it? Don't we all want a quick efficient kill for our quarry? 215, 230, 250 on up at 2800fps or more. You get the benefits of great BC, plus the added comfort of the added energy from a larger bullet. LIke its been said, why risk a 7mm not punching a shoulder because of a bad wind read or animal movement? A good elk rifle starts with 3 and leaves 2 holes, all the time. There's no such thing as overkill.

Holy crap this is killing me...

Let's run some numbers people:

Berger 195 7mm@3000 fps has 1737 ft lbs at 1000 yards and will drift 3.75 moa 10 mph cross wind.

215 vld 300 mag @2900 fps has 1640 ft lbs at 1000 and drifts 4.5moa

If you're feeling frisky a 250 vld 338 rum @2900 fps has 1807 ft lbs @ 1000 yards and drifts 4.75 moa

Seriously what is the argument here????

For the record I just dropped a bull in his tracks at 940 yards with a 147 grain 6.5 caliber bullet at 3050fps.
The shot wasn't perfect.. and yes it blew through the shoulder. He tumbled approx. 200 feet down the mountain.
Now would I have preferred my 7mm for that shot? hell yes! but I was hitting 8"targets the day before @1k and I felt extremely capable of making a clean shot.

Shoot whatever .30 or .338 you feel good about, but please try to understand that an elk caliber does not have to begin with a .30 or bigger.

I bought into that crock when I first started long range hunting, and have since traded my 338 for a much more practical 7mm.
Again if a 338 tickles your fancy then great...
just don't tell everyone else it's what they need

 

[Mach 1]

Holy crap this is killing me...

Let's run some numbers people:

Berger 195 7mm@3000 fps has 1737 ft lbs at 1000 yards and will drift 3.75 moa 10 mph cross wind.

215 vld 300 mag @2900 fps has 1640 ft lbs at 1000 and drifts 4.5moa

If you're feeling frisky a 250 vld 338 rum @2900 fps has 1807 ft lbs @ 1000 yards and drifts 4.75 moa

Seriously what is the argument here????

For the record I just dropped a bull in his tracks at 940 yards with a 147 grain 6.5 caliber bullet at 940 yards.
The shot wasn't perfect.. and yes it blew through the shoulder. He tumbled approx. 200 feet down the mountain.
Now would I have preferred my 7mm for that shot? hell yes! but I was hitting 8"targets the day before @1k and I felt extremely capable of making a clean shot.

Shoot whatever .30 or .338 you feel good about, but please try to understand that an elk caliber does not have to begin with a .30 or bigger.

I bought into that crock when I first started long range hunting, and have since traded my 338 for a much more practical 7mm.
Again if a 338 tickles your fancy then great...
just don't tell everyone else it's what they need

First off compare apples to apples. Ur using the heavy bullets for everything but the 338. Redo ur jaded comparisons and use the Berger 300 grain bullet with a bc of .818 If you do, a 7 mag can't come close. Apples
To apples.

 

[86alaskan]

Ok, not trying to tell anyone what they have to use. But let's use a real LR 338, instead of what's listed. I run a 300gr berger otm tactical at 2750 from my rum. Run those numbers...... .818bc, 1975fps at 1k and 2500ft/lbs at sea level. Those numbers jump to almost 3000ftlbs and 2100fps at 7500ft. I know if I'm trying to kill a big animal with a reputation for sucking up lead, that's what I want to pull the trigger on. Build the rifle right, use a good brake and these big guns aren't hard to shoot.

 

[86alaskan]

Thanks mach1, you beat me to it. And sorry, it's almost 2600ft/lbs at 1k.

 

[NEMTHunter]

300 win mag @ 7500 ft is about 2128fps and 2163ftlb @ 1000 yards with the 215 berger going 3050 @ muzzle.

Where I live its 1929fps and 1776ftlbs.

Now a 30-338 lapua imp with 230 berger and 3200 fps muzzle is 2086fps and 2222ftlb down here now at 7500 its 2286fps and 2668ftlbs.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

Ok I'll play along...

28 nos 195 @3100 still produces 2069 ft lbs @1k

Yes the 300 grain .338 packs more punch, but we are not seeing a real world difference at 1k and that's a fact..
And we have now taken any .30 advantage off the table, crikey I've never seen a 300win send a 215 anywhere close to 3050fps.. that's **** hot!

Now for shootability; my 28 nos weighed 7.5 pounds and was easy to shoot 195's with a brake.

My 338 RUM weighed 9.5 lbs and I could not even come close to tracking my shots with a brake shooting 250's.

Personally I will take shootability, lighter weight, spotting my own shots, and affordable practise over 500 ft lbs.

 

[Mach 1]

Ok I'll play along...

28 nos 195 @3100 still produces 2069 ft lbs @1k

Yes the 300 grain .338 packs more punch, but we are not seeing a real world difference at 1k and that's a fact..
And we have now taken any .30 advantage off the table, crikey I've never seen a 300win send a 215 anywhere close to 3050fps.. that's **** hot!

Now for shootability; my 28 nos weighed 7.5 pounds and was easy to shoot 195's with a brake.

My 338 RUM weighed 9.5 lbs and I could not even come close to tracking my shots with a brake shooting 250's.

Personally I will take shootability, lighter weight, spotting my own shots, and affordable practise over 500 ft lbs.

500 or 600 foot ponds of energy is a lot of difference when it comes to an elks massive shoulders. The key to it all is the shooter. A good shot is a good shot and a bad shot is a bad one. However I personally like the added energy of a 338. At long ranges. And 338 rifles don't have to weight more than a 7 mag rifle. The muzzle breaks these days do a very good job and are pretty darn efficient. Always better to have to much than not enough

 

[Deleted member 25294]

First off compare apples to apples. Ur using the heavy bullets for everything but the 338. Redo ur jaded comparisons and use the Berger 300 grain bullet with a bc of .818 If you do, a 7 mag can't come close. Apples
To apples.

First off compare apples to apples. Ur using the heavy bullets for everything but the 338. Redo ur jaded comparisons and use the Berger 300 grain bullet with a bc of .818 If you do, a 7 mag can't come close. Apples
To apples.

Redid my "Jaded" comparisons and yes its close
Happy hunting to you Sir.....