WTB smokeless muzzleloader

88mustang

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
17
Location
Mount Airy NC
I am looking for a smokeless muzzleloader
I have a encore ml rt now But now I would like to go smokeless and see what’s out there
 

Bullmark

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
391
Location
Roanoke Va
I don’t have anything for sale but I can give you my experience with smokeless muzz. I have some property in Iowa and the only gun seasons are shotgun and muzz. Back about 11-12 yrs ago, I wanted to extend my range so I first tried an Ultimate Muzz. The company is based out of Michigan and is the same group that partnered with REM. Basically an overbuilt version of any online, it purported to shoot 300yds accurately. The recipe was 4 pellets and the builders proprietary bullets. In short, it was a disaster. The gun simply would not perform, and the builder was a world class horse’s ***. I traded it for a tower blind and never looked back.
Then I moved on to the Savage ML ll, I think that’s the correct model....it was the only factory made that actually shot smokeless.
My hunting buddy bought one too and we had high hopes. Over the course of 6 months I bought 4 different ones and spent a lifetime’s worth of hours and enough powder to take out a small city at the range. Both of us tried and tried with a total of 6 different guns and came close to going completely nuts.
We would find a recipe that shot great one day and, despite changing nothing, would be all over the place the very next day. Zero consistency and no rhyme or reason as to why. I’m no Annie Oakley but can hold my own shooting 100yds. My friend is on the State Police sniper squad and is a great shot.
Completely frustrated I went back to an Encore with BH 209, and kinda forgot about The smokeless Route.
Fast forward to late muzz season in Iowa 7-8 yrs ago. I met a neighboring landowner who was shooting a McWhorter smokeless.
He asked if I wanted to shoot it, so I put a small pumpkin on a fence post exactly 300 yds out. The pumpkin exploded and I got on the phone. The gun cost more than my first car, way more actually. Since then I sold their original build, which used a sabot, and bought a bullet to bore model.
I can say with absolute certainty that it shoots as good or better than any centerfire I’ve owned. Maintenance is a breeze. Against my better judgement, I left the gun in Iowa (l live in Va) not wanting to fly with it, and planned to have fed ex pick it up. I procrastinated and the next season arrived before I got it back. It had a charge in the barrel the entire time.....when I took it to the range it fired no issue and cut the center of the bullseye.
I shoot 73gr of 4198 and push a 325gr Pittman at 2900fps. The accuracy is crazy. It does have some recoil and honestly no fun to shoot a lot.
There are now less expensive options out there that will give u way more velocity and consistency over traditional black powder.
Hankins custom rifles sells a CVA 45-70 that is modified into a smokeless. Cost is around $1000, all in. I have a friend who bought one and he’s pleased.
There are some builders that will put one together for u.....and depending on your component selection, the cost will be much less than a McWhorter. Their builds are super nice with top end everything....Borden action, Brux barrel, etc. And honestly the action isn’t as important as getting the right barrel.
I know a great guy in Illinois that built me a .280ai recently and it couldn’t have turned out any nicer. He has built several smokeless muzz’s and was using a Win model 70 action, bartlein barrel, Jewell trigger, cerakoted, stock of your choice, etc
His builds are top shelf and usually come in around $3500. Lemme know and I can get u his contact info. He doesn’t advertise at all, but built one for Tom Manners (of Manners Stocks).....and has built for Team USA long range shooters.
Once u go smokeless you won’t go back.
If I could only have one rifle it would be my smokeless.
 

88mustang

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
17
Location
Mount Airy NC
I don’t have anything for sale but I can give you my experience with smokeless muzz. I have some property in Iowa and the only gun seasons are shotgun and muzz. Back about 11-12 yrs ago, I wanted to extend my range so I first tried an Ultimate Muzz. The company is based out of Michigan and is the same group that partnered with REM. Basically an overbuilt version of any online, it purported to shoot 300yds accurately. The recipe was 4 pellets and the builders proprietary bullets. In short, it was a disaster. The gun simply would not perform, and the builder was a world class horse’s ***. I traded it for a tower blind and never looked back.
Then I moved on to the Savage ML ll, I think that’s the correct model....it was the only factory made that actually shot smokeless.
My hunting buddy bought one too and we had high hopes. Over the course of 6 months I bought 4 different ones and spent a lifetime’s worth of hours and enough powder to take out a small city at the range. Both of us tried and tried with a total of 6 different guns and came close to going completely nuts.
We would find a recipe that shot great one day and, despite changing nothing, would be all over the place the very next day. Zero consistency and no rhyme or reason as to why. I’m no Annie Oakley but can hold my own shooting 100yds. My friend is on the State Police sniper squad and is a great shot.
Completely frustrated I went back to an Encore with BH 209, and kinda forgot about The smokeless Route.
Fast forward to late muzz season in Iowa 7-8 yrs ago. I met a neighboring landowner who was shooting a McWhorter smokeless.
He asked if I wanted to shoot it, so I put a small pumpkin on a fence post exactly 300 yds out. The pumpkin exploded and I got on the phone. The gun cost more than my first car, way more actually. Since then I sold their original build, which used a sabot, and bought a bullet to bore model.
I can say with absolute certainty that it shoots as good or better than any centerfire I’ve owned. Maintenance is a breeze. Against my better judgement, I left the gun in Iowa (l live in Va) not wanting to fly with it, and planned to have fed ex pick it up. I procrastinated and the next season arrived before I got it back. It had a charge in the barrel the entire time.....when I took it to the range it fired no issue and cut the center of the bullseye.
I shoot 73gr of 4198 and push a 325gr Pittman at 2900fps. The accuracy is crazy. It does have some recoil and honestly no fun to shoot a lot.
There are now less expensive options out there that will give u way more velocity and consistency over traditional black powder.
Hankins custom rifles sells a CVA 45-70 that is modified into a smokeless. Cost is around $1000, all in. I have a friend who bought one and he’s pleased.
There are some builders that will put one together for u.....and depending on your component selection, the cost will be much less than a McWhorter. Their builds are super nice with top end everything....Borden action, Brux barrel, etc. And honestly the action isn’t as important as getting the right barrel.
I know a great guy in Illinois that built me a .280ai recently and it couldn’t have turned out any nicer. He has built several smokeless muzz’s and was using a Win model 70 action, bartlein barrel, Jewell trigger, cerakoted, stock of your choice, etc
His builds are top shelf and usually come in around $3500. Lemme know and I can get u his contact info. He doesn’t advertise at all, but built one for Tom Manners (of Manners Stocks).....and has built for Team USA long range shooters.
Once u go smokeless you won’t go back.
If I could only have one rifle it would be my smokeless.
Thks for the information. I had friend let me also shoot his Mcwhorter ml this season it awesome!
I would love a Mcwhorter. I have a encore ml rt now it’s lights out at a 100yds. My son missed a good buck at 175yds but was lucky enough to get another shot at 80yds. That the reason why I want something with a little more distance I was checking out the Arrowhead encore barrels. But after I get all that I need for the encore I’m going to be in the encore for about 2500$ In the gun w/o a scope. Then then it still a encore barrel swap. Yes I would be interested in your guy that built your 280al
Thks
 

Bullmark

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
391
Location
Roanoke Va
Honestly if you really want a gun that shoots like a rifle, cleans up and requires the Maintenance of a rifle, and gives you the same range as a rifle, I’d do whatever it takes to get yourself a well built smokeless. That said, I would def stay away from using a laminate stock.....it will save a little money but make it heavier than hell. Mine has a 26” barrel plus another 2” for the brake (which you will need) and weighs in around 8.5lbs bare. If I were to do it all over again, the action is where I might forego a Borden or Deviance, etc and save some money and use a blueprinted Rem700 or Win 70.
The action has little bearing on the performance with a muzz.
Anyway, the guys name is Jay Cutright....cell is 217-264-0047. He does text and I always either called or texted.
He built me one super nice rifle and it shoots as good as it looks. The photo and text below is a pic of what he built for me along with a muzz for the Manners guy.
 

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240weatherby

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Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
272
Location
WI
I have this one that was built by Piercision rifles 45 cal.

$1800 shipped
 

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rackattack

Active Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
26
Using the MGM barrel from Luke with included rail, a decent set of rings, and a VX5 from the classifieds you would be into an Encore for about $1650. The same build with a Brux barrel and you're into it for about $2250. Now all things being equal (same scope and rings) If you did a Savage action and a Brux barrel you'd be into it for about $3000 doing it yourself. When I built mine, I did it off of a Remington 700ML action cause that's what was being done then. If I had it to do over again, I would have built off of a savage large shank action, since it's so easy to convert and headspace yourself. It really depends on your range goals, if it's 300-350 yards, the encore is the way to go, if you want farther, than the savage build is the way to go.
 

17Tactical

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2010
Messages
483
Location
Georgia
I have a Knight Ultra Lite Mountaineer 50 caliber that I will sell if you are interested.
Includes bases and 1" rings and a set of Knight FiberOptic iron sights (the barrel will have to be tapped for the iron sights). It has the full plastic jacket ignition and Western Conversion kit.
Scope in the pictures is not for sale.
 

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Bullmark

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
391
Location
Roanoke Va
I have this one that was built by Piercision rifles 45 cal.

$1800 shipped
That’s a nice looking build....smokeless I assume? The price is better than reasonable. Is it bullet to bore or uses a sabot? My first Custom smokeless used a sabot and was every bit as accurate.....it didn’t quite have the velocity but still much faster than black powder or BH 209.
 

240weatherby

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
272
Location
WI
That’s a nice looking build....smokeless I assume? The price is better than reasonable. Is it bullet to bore or uses a sabot? My first Custom smokeless used a sabot and was every bit as accurate.....it didn’t quite have the velocity but still much faster than black powder or BH 209.
Bullet to bore 45 cal smokeless running Parker 327gr around 2850-2900 fps

I'm including the ramrod, spin jag, primer holders about 20-25, probably 15-20 bullets "i need to see what's left" and powder funnel. And current load data.

Comple and ready to go package.
 
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