Weighing Cases for Quickload
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Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Touch a tissue corner to flatten
I should have tried that before posting.
I probably won't ever sort a lot of brass by water weight but I was wondering what weight lots you use.
Water seems to weigh about 10x what powder does so it seems to me that sorting by 1 grain lots would be reasonable. Am I off base?
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Your tolerance totally depends on the cartridge H20 capacity. So once you have your numbers you decide which cases to cull.
You can pretty much figure it out using QL beforehand. Just tweak 'Maximum case fill, overflow grains H20' both ways & run the results for muzzle velocities.
You can pretty much figure it out using QL beforehand. Just tweak 'Maximum case fill, overflow grains H20' both ways & run the results for muzzle velocities.
Wyo7200
Well-Known Member
Are you loading for hunting or for competitions? Think the method involves using a fired, unsized case, using the spent primer as a plug. I'd be interested to see your results with the 21st century plug.
If its for hunting, grab 10-15, get the water weight of each and average them. You will find that most are within a few tenths- which wont be enough to really throw off the grouping if you are on an OBT node. Here is an example of my 22-250 cases, that vary +/- .4 in only a few cases. I can expect a range of +/- 20 fps velocity difference from the average, if my math is right.
Lapua
avg: 45.072
Dry Wet
167.9 | 212.6
167.5 | 212.8
167.7 | 212.5
167.7 | 213
168 | 212.8
167.4 | 212.7
167.9 | 212.5
167.5 | 212.7
168.1 | 212.4
167.4 | 212.8
167.7 | 212.7
167.8 | 212.8
167.8 | 213
167.2 | 212.3
167.9 | 212.9
167.7 | 212.8
167.7 | 212.8
167.4 | 212.7
167.9 | 213
167.9 | 213
166.4 | 212.7
167.7 | 212.3
167.4 | 212.6
167 | 212.9
167.4 | 212.5
AVG: 167.6 | 212.712
If its for hunting, grab 10-15, get the water weight of each and average them. You will find that most are within a few tenths- which wont be enough to really throw off the grouping if you are on an OBT node. Here is an example of my 22-250 cases, that vary +/- .4 in only a few cases. I can expect a range of +/- 20 fps velocity difference from the average, if my math is right.
Lapua
avg: 45.072
Dry Wet
167.9 | 212.6
167.5 | 212.8
167.7 | 212.5
167.7 | 213
168 | 212.8
167.4 | 212.7
167.9 | 212.5
167.5 | 212.7
168.1 | 212.4
167.4 | 212.8
167.7 | 212.7
167.8 | 212.8
167.8 | 213
167.2 | 212.3
167.9 | 212.9
167.7 | 212.8
167.7 | 212.8
167.4 | 212.7
167.9 | 213
167.9 | 213
166.4 | 212.7
167.7 | 212.3
167.4 | 212.6
167 | 212.9
167.4 | 212.5
AVG: 167.6 | 212.712
Thanks. I'll give that a try. 21c plug should give almost same results. Only difference is that primers are slightly concave at flash hole end and plug is flat.
Thanks. I'll give that a try. 21c plug should give almost same results. Only difference is that primers are slightly concave at flash hole end and plug is flat.
One more question. Does QL predict the best charge based on OBT? All I see is barrel time based on my inputs.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
QL does not.
Nothing can or ever will PREDICT best charge.
Nothing can or ever will PREDICT best charge.
Wyo7200
Well-Known Member
I guess I have a different outlook than Mike. QL lists an estimate of how the charge will perform, and lists the time it takes for the bullet to leave the muzzle- (barrel time) for the range of charges.
If you take the time to enter your guns profile, measure your components (bullets weight, length, diameter, case length and H2o capacity) and enter them into QL, adjust the weighting factor correctly for the cartridge, adjust the burn rate to match chronographed velocities, it can estimate what will be a performing charge and what would be a waste when coupled with Chris longs node tables. The more precise the input is, the more accurate the estimates are. Should it be your only source for load data? Absolutely not. QL is a great supplement to show you what you can expect with YOUR components. it can give an understandable explaination why your seeing pressure signs when your at the min load of published data and why you are not seeing pressure signs when you are 3 grains over published max. If it can be used to validate performing loads, show why a component combination produces horrible results in one rifle but the same load is a performer in another, why can't it predict (I think estimate is a better word) a good load? In all honesty, it's made me a safer reloader because I can see where I will be pushing the line of saami pressure and I can see which range of charges I can focus on that give me the fastest velocity at the safer pressure levels and greatest accuracy.
I'll say again though, it shouldn't be the only source used when developing a load. Stay safe, caution first, start low, work up, watch for the telling signs of approaching danger.
If you take the time to enter your guns profile, measure your components (bullets weight, length, diameter, case length and H2o capacity) and enter them into QL, adjust the weighting factor correctly for the cartridge, adjust the burn rate to match chronographed velocities, it can estimate what will be a performing charge and what would be a waste when coupled with Chris longs node tables. The more precise the input is, the more accurate the estimates are. Should it be your only source for load data? Absolutely not. QL is a great supplement to show you what you can expect with YOUR components. it can give an understandable explaination why your seeing pressure signs when your at the min load of published data and why you are not seeing pressure signs when you are 3 grains over published max. If it can be used to validate performing loads, show why a component combination produces horrible results in one rifle but the same load is a performer in another, why can't it predict (I think estimate is a better word) a good load? In all honesty, it's made me a safer reloader because I can see where I will be pushing the line of saami pressure and I can see which range of charges I can focus on that give me the fastest velocity at the safer pressure levels and greatest accuracy.
I'll say again though, it shouldn't be the only source used when developing a load. Stay safe, caution first, start low, work up, watch for the telling signs of approaching danger.
I'll have to check longs node tables. While we are on the subject of inputting data, I ran QL for my 308 load, 46.2gr varget, .015" seating depth, 155.5 bergers and confirmed the water weight. QL showed 200fps slower MV. Am I doing something wrong? I emailed QL. Haven't heard from them yet.
Wyo7200
Well-Known Member
Without knowing your capacity or velocity, and going by the supplied info, I get
at 2.800 ( .294 seating depth in QL):
+00.0 108 46.20 2616 2362 61771 11946 95.8 0.844 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
at 3.079 (.015 seating depth in QL):
+00.0 97 46.20 2468 2103 49558 12178 93.7 0.931
What is your case capacity, velocity and cartridge OAL?
at 2.800 ( .294 seating depth in QL):
+00.0 108 46.20 2616 2362 61771 11946 95.8 0.844 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
at 3.079 (.015 seating depth in QL):
+00.0 97 46.20 2468 2103 49558 12178 93.7 0.931
What is your case capacity, velocity and cartridge OAL?
See attached photo. My actual MV is 2925.
Attachments
Wyo7200
Well-Known Member
Do you happen to have 8" of barrel that you're not telling us about? 
Do you happen to have 8" of barrel that you're not telling us about?
Good one. MV taken from magneto speed and trajectory confirmed out to 1000 yards. Barrel length may not be precise but ordered length was 22".
