Vortex/nightforce BDC question

[upacreek]

So I am in process of getting my rifle re-barreled and in the interim have been trying to educate myself about a new scope. I shot a nightforce last weekend and really liked the hashmarked recticle. I was just about set on a Vortex scope but the website shows recticles I may not enjoy as much as the Nightforce.
Has anyone had an issue using the Vortex hashmarks not being adequate?
My other question. Is the hashmarks on either scope only accurate to advertised compensation on max magnification? If I choose to shoot at 500 yards on 12X will the hashmarks be helpful at all? Or should I just ignore the hashmarks and just dial in the turret?

Just as a side note my background is to shoot instinctive with a duplex 4-10X leupold. Last weekend a friend of mine dialed in his turret to 700 yards as 3 range finders agreed. He shot low. After dialing into 740 he started hitting the rock we were aiming at. He was all ****ed of about how the range finders were cheap and not right. I dialed in my gut feeling of elevation and nailed it. I want to become more accurate than my gut feeling, but after seeing my friend miss several times this weekend I wonder if it will give me a handicap if I get too trusting of the turret like my friend.
Anyone have advice or experience to help me figure out what to spend my hard earned money on?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well, as far as hashmarks, reticles come in measurements of either Mils or MOA (Minute Of Angle).

Personally I am a fan of MOA scale reticles.

Nightforce makes an excellent scope. My next scope will be one for my next build.

Vortex also makes nice optics. I've shot behind a couple of those, too.

 

[upacreek]

The vortex has less hash marks vertically. Is that an issue for anyone? I assumed I would have MOA incriments. What are MILS? Any advantage to MILS?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mil, MOA or inches? | Shooting Illustrated

 

[pills]

The hash marks will only be accurate at one power setting on a sfp(second focal plane) scope. They will be accurate at all power settings on a FFP (first focal plane) scope. They cost more $$ though.

Tough to tell why your friend missed at 700 yds. could be many different reasons. What was he using to determine the come ups? was the ground level or was the shot up hill/ down hill. Were the weather and elevation the same as when he sighted his rifle? Was he using the same ammo as he sighted with? did he actually chrono his bullet or get some type of published velocity?

I think getting a good system and learning how to use it will out shoot "gut shooting" everyday especially at long range. If your shooting targets that's one thing if your hunting a gut feeling is not the way to go.

 

[upacreek]

Thanks for the info. My friend, I am sure, did not take altitude, temp, or angle of incline into account. He is a nice guy and I was surprised to see him shoot his gun cause despite all his verbal confindence in his gun, he rarely shows it. I just hope to have better results than him if I were to get into the turret and high end scope relm. I really liked the nightforce scope, I can't stop thinking of how satisfied I was with it. As a side note, I also shot a 300WinMag with a muzzle break. HOLY COW! It defused half the recoil. I have never shot a functional break, I am sold! I just hope the smith is compenent in that item. If I end up with a nightforce and muzzle break I won't have any more excuses, I will just have to shoot more.

 

[264Winmag]

I have to disagree with part of pills post. He is correct that the FFP is good at all powers but the SFP can be as well. If you look at the front side of the power ring it states 1x, 2x,3x,4x, which is the power magnifier on a 6X24 PST at 24 power the hash marks are i believe 2 moa (not sure), if you turn it to 12 power the hash marks wold be equal to 4 moa and so on 8 power 6 moa, 6 power 8 moa.

Nightforce are great scopes no dought about it, but don't look past the PST, they are a very good scope as well, Sightron SIII in a 8X32 with the moa-2 reticle maybe another one to look at

Good luck

Mike

 

[pills]

I am sorry 264 is correct what I should have said is the values are not correct without doing math conversions. These are easy on full power or 1/2 or even 1/4 but if your on say 15 power or 9 etc.. they involve math. It is just one more step. You have to also be mindful of what power your on at all times where as in a FFP you just look through and shoot.

 

[264Winmag]

The main question I have is what kind of hunting or shooting are you doing with this rifle? The scopes i mentioned i use on my varmint rifles and am usually shooting from a bench a have time to dial. Now my deer and coyote rifles are a different story. I personally don't like the exposed turrets on those as they just seem to be bulky and to easy to accidently bump depending on your type of hunting. I would rather have something like a leupold with a boone and crooket ret or something similar. but its all your call just throwing out some things to think about.

Another good scope is the Zeiss with Rapid-z reticle. Great glass. nightforce would be the top choice if you have the cash, but the others are a close second. buy the best you can afford

happy shooting!!gun)

Mike

 

[upacreek]

The primary use for this gun is to use for elk hunting. I hunt off of a horse so I am not too excited about the huge turrets. I have used a redfield the last 3 years and have no complaints. My gunsmith saw it and said if I don't get away from junk scopes the rifle will never do what he is building it to do. If I have to spend good money on a scope I am thinking I want at least 16X and 44mm objective lense as a minimum. I am not excited about dialing a turret in the field. The moa hash marks seem much more useful for me as I can just range my target and compensate in the recticle. I like the vortex viper ffp on paper, but don't want to spend $800 on something that later I find out is not what I should have spent money on. Anyone have an opinion of the viper series scopes?
My main objective is to be sub-moa and confident to take elk at 600yrds. In the last 18 years my average distance for elk taken is 400yards, so another 200 isn't a huge step. Two years ago I took an elk at 520. That being said, once I am confident at 600 I am sure wolves and coyotes out to 750 will be next.
Basically I am open to anything quality (except Nikon) that is not over 50mm objective, 16X or more, and has verticle hashmarks that are first focal plane. Any suggestions?