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torx wrench broke off in base screw

Kroberts

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
92
I was working on bedding a new laminate stock for my savage and took everything off the action except the picitanny base. I tried to take it of but using the allen wrench supplied with the base I could not budge the screws and even broke off the head of the wrench in a screw, so the base is now staying. I have used blue locktite in the past with good results, but had heard of using clear nail polish, and had some on hand so I used it as a thread locker. I blame that stuff. I don't need the base off any time soon, so it's not a big deal. But for when I do, does anyone have any advice on how to get the screws out and get the wrench head out of the screw? I can always drill out the screws if necessary. Oh and the bedding job turned out well, though I did have one issue with the bedding compound going up the front action screw and temporarily locking the stock and action together.

Thanks for all advice.
Kyle
 
I was working on bedding a new laminate stock for my savage and took everything off the action except the picitanny base. I tried to take it of but using the allen wrench supplied with the base I could not budge the screws and even broke off the head of the wrench in a screw, so the base is now staying. I have used blue locktite in the past with good results, but had heard of using clear nail polish, and had some on hand so I used it as a thread locker. I blame that stuff. I don't need the base off any time soon, so it's not a big deal. But for when I do, does anyone have any advice on how to get the screws out and get the wrench head out of the screw? I can always drill out the screws if necessary. Oh and the bedding job turned out well, though I did have one issue with the bedding compound going up the front action screw and temporarily locking the stock and action together.

Thanks for all advice.
Kyle

first of all blue Loctite, or 242 is made for screws larger than 1/4", and not recommended for anything smaller than a #10 screw (even that's marginal). You should be using purple, or 222 Loctite.

Now is the time to remove the bad screw, and it's really not as bad as it looks. You said Allen wrench, and then you said Torx. Which one? The Torx is actually easier to get it due to the way they are splined. The hex key will often twist into the metal of the screw, and can be a pain in the rear to get out. If the wrench head will move around a little bit, you might try a magnet. Won't work? OK, we need a good soldering iron, a very fine ***** punch, and a small hammer. First try to work the wrench head loose with the ***** punch (sometimes you can also do this with an ice pick, but be careful not to break the tip off and then make it even tighter). OK you got the wrench head out of the screw! Now you'll need a wrench that fits tight in the damaged screw head. Here's some tricks I've used in the past (I've literally removed hundreds of those small screws in the past):

* to get a wrench to fit the hex socket often means you have to revert to the wrong sized wrench. I've used metric in SAE and vise versa. Another trick is brass shim stock wrapped around the hex key

* Loctite melts at about 220 degrees, and a soldering iron will do the trick nicely without messing with the action. Forget a torch!!!! Heated steel will almost always shrink after being heated very hot, and then makes the thread fit even tighter. But with the soldering iron most all the heat is in the screw itself. If you have a good drill press, look for a left hand drill and the soldering iron. If the drill press will not run counter clockwise, then use the tap drill size and drill the head off the thread. Then heat the remaining thread part and remove it with a small pair of vise grips.

* with a broken stub left in the screw, you have the choice of a carbide brill bit or the Hi-Roc. I'd go with the Hi-Roc everytime over a standard carbide drill bit. It will cut thru 99% of the allen and torx wrenches. Just make sure you have a good solid vise and table mount. I recommend a Bridgeport mill. Be sure to run a tap in the holes before going back together.
gary
 
I agree with most of Trickymisfit's suggestions, especially the one that says you don't need to put a torch on the work. If you're going to drill out screw heads, make sure you've got a very good drill press and a universal vise so that you can line up the work with the drill bit and not mess up the mounting holes in the base. Using a GOOD quality set of vise grips on the threaded portion of the screw that remains when the head is drill off and the base removed is important. The smaller the vise grips are and the better them clamp the better the project is likely to turn out. It's easy to make a valuable rifle less valuable by doing work that might best be left to a qualified gun smith - never overlook that option. :)
 
Thanks for the tips. The screw is a torx, and by allen I was meaning that it is one of the wrenches shaped like a normal allen wrench. Would heating the screw with the soldering iron work with nail polish like it does the loctite? Since that's what it's glued down with.

Thanks,
Kyle
 
A small syringe or dropper with acetone will work the nail polish loose. Just wait a few minutes before applying any heat if needed
 
A small syringe or dropper with acetone will work the nail polish loose. Just wait a few minutes before applying any heat if needed
I agree with this. Also try PB blaster it will help soften up the nail polish and its a penetrate oil just let it soak for a while maybe even reapply a couple of times...
 
I know it's been a while since I posted this about getting the screws stuck. I had decided to leave the screws in place and just shoot the rifle and just recently decided to try taking the screws loose so that it can be rebarreled. I tried soaking the screws in acetone to see if that would work, and it didn't. I tried a couple hours, then over night so about 9 hours and managed to get one of the four screws out. I tried soaking it in penetrating oil thinking that even if the acetone did soften the nail polish that it just left the threads dry and gripping very hard, that didn't help either. I also tried placing a punch on the screw head and rapping it with a hammer to see if the shock would crack the polish, didn't work either. Does anyone have any other ideas on how to remove the screws shy of having the gunsmith that rebarrels the rifle drill out these screws and rethread for the next size larger screw? Which I'm thinking will have to be done. I've learned a few things from this experience, don't use nail polish on the entire threading of a screw and that #10 torx bits break at about 35" pounds. Today I picked up a soldering iron to remove some dints from a bow I just bent straight. Think the heat will soften the nail polish?

All advice appreciated,
Thanks

Kyle
 
My favorite tool is a Propane Torch with one of the copper soldering tips in place on the torch burner. With this set up no flame contacts any of the metal. Just the solder tip and it to the screw. This will allow a lot of heat to be put on the screw head quickly without affecting the scope base or the action. The solder tip I have I bought about 1967 not sure they are still sold. As a police armor I worked on a lot of guns I had no history on so it was always heat first then wrench. Good Luck with this project.
 
I know it's been a while since I posted this about getting the screws stuck. I had decided to leave the screws in place and just shoot the rifle and just recently decided to try taking the screws loose so that it can be rebarreled. I tried soaking the screws in acetone to see if that would work, and it didn't. I tried a couple hours, then over night so about 9 hours and managed to get one of the four screws out. I tried soaking it in penetrating oil thinking that even if the acetone did soften the nail polish that it just left the threads dry and gripping very hard, that didn't help either. I also tried placing a punch on the screw head and rapping it with a hammer to see if the shock would crack the polish, didn't work either. Does anyone have any other ideas on how to remove the screws shy of having the gunsmith that rebarrels the rifle drill out these screws and rethread for the next size larger screw? Which I'm thinking will have to be done. I've learned a few things from this experience, don't use nail polish on the entire threading of a screw and that #10 torx bits break at about 35" pounds. Today I picked up a soldering iron to remove some dints from a bow I just bent straight. Think the heat will soften the nail polish?

All advice appreciated,
Thanks

Kyle

I had a similar situation a few years ago and I used ...

P8270545.jpg


Home Depot have the new 4-pc set for $20. Give it a shot. Obviously, you'll need to replace the screws ... get the steel ones.

Good luck!

Ed
 
I have had the same thing happen with nail polish. I drilled the head off of the screws, heated the screw body sticking out with a butane pocket torch and was done in minutes.

I now own stock in everything locktite makes!

There is always this risk when you apply any thread compound. Going up a screw size is something most custom outfits do as well. But, to save yourself work, trouble and expense. My idea of drilling the head off and removing with a vise grip or pliers was mentioned by other guys as well. It works and is relatively safe for your firearm. But DO clean all of the screw holes with a thread tap to make sure everything works next time.
 
OK, you now have tried a few tricks of the trade, and some work and others didn't.
Very small screws (#8 and smaller) can be a bitch to remove. I think it's time to find someone with a Bridgeport mill or something similar. Drill the screw head out with the tap drill sized end mill. Now you should have a small stub sticking out. If I were doing it, I would use a two flute end mill. Do not remove the action from the vise, or move the slides. Sometimes you can clamp a small Visegrip pliers on the stub. Lets hope so.
Do not try to remove the stub yet, but do a recheck to make sure you are centered up with the screw thread. The best penetrating oil made is Kroil. I would try soaking the threads over night. You tried Acetone, and it worked to a certain extent. Try model airplane fuel! Just a few drops every half hour or so. This stuff is similar to the Loctite clean up fluid. Would be nice to be able to completely soak the action overnight in Acetone or finger nail polish remover over night. Yet I'd try the Kroil first.

The real issue here is that the messed up screw is harder than the action it's threaded into. A drill will always take the path of least resistance, and try to go to the softer metal. That's why I said to use a two flute end mill as it won't. They sell them in tap drill sizes.

Next question: by chance is this screw over the barrel thread? If so loosen the barrel nut! You may have the screw bottomed out into the barrel thread, and action like a set screw. The good part is that you already have the rail mounted, and can use it to set up your alignment. Just be glad your not doing this with a 4-40 screw stuck in aluminum!
gary
 
One of the screws is over the barrel threads. Is there another way to get the barrel off without the nut wrench, the base is an egw 20 Moa and the front extends over the barrel nut to the point you can't get the wrench on it. At this point I think I'll need to use the reverse threaded screw remover since the screws have gotten messed up to the point that the proper sized bit won't fit any more. I'm about to order a new barrel for it as soon as I get the money together so I'm thinking I'll leave the base alone until the barrel is close to showing up and just shoot it as is until then. Though it would be nice to know the screws aren't stuck anymore.

Kyle
 
One of the screws is over the barrel threads. Is there another way to get the barrel off without the nut wrench, the base is an egw 20 Moa and the front extends over the barrel nut to the point you can't get the wrench on it. At this point I think I'll need to use the reverse threaded screw remover since the screws have gotten messed up to the point that the proper sized bit won't fit any more. I'm about to order a new barrel for it as soon as I get the money together so I'm thinking I'll leave the base alone until the barrel is close to showing up and just shoot it as is until then. Though it would be nice to know the screws aren't stuck anymore.

Kyle

I believe I would drill out the screw head, and then at least remove the base. If the screw is jammed into the barrel, do not try to unscrew the barrel! It will mess up the barrel threads and probably the action threads. But with the base removed, you can at least loosen the barrel nut and maybe get a few thousandths of clearance. If not, you need to find a Bridgeport or else a gunsmith that has one. If trying to drill out the screw heads, look around for a left hand drill or a two flute end mill. The problem is that the screws are case hardened, and a large amount of the screw is hard. No problem for an end mill or a hi-roc drill bit.
gary
 
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